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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 212 of 1257 (788298)
07-29-2016 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
07-28-2016 7:02 PM


Re: How we get from rock to landscape to rock, that's the question
Soil on top of soil?
Yes.
No landscape?
Obviously a landscape.
Were they lithified? Clearly the strata that represent separate time periods had to have lithified long before the next layer did, or possibly even got deposited — because of the many millions of years between the time periods you know.
There is no time between two consecutive time periods.
After the soil/rock of the previous time period has been laid down, how long are we talking about before the soil of the next layer starts accumulating?
0.0 seconds.
ome trees put down incredibly deep roots for instance. How come such root systems aren’t common in the rocks that supposedly once supported a whole time period of living things in a landscape? (Don’t try to tell me they’re common; I know they’re not).
Well, a lot of the time tree roots rot, you know. Most things do, which is why most things aren't fossilized. But in conditions in which tree stumps are preserved, the tree roots are often found attached to them.
The thing is we DO have to think in terms of rock-landscape-rock, and in terms of not a shred of that landscape remaining on the surface of the rock either, just some fossilized flora and fauna in the rock.
Nothing anyone has said gives a reasonable explanation of this that I can see.
We have said clearly, distinctly, and repeatedly that the scenario you have just sketched out didn't happen, couldn't happen, wouldn't happen, and is directly contradicted by all the evidence. We are not obliged to produce a "reasonable explanation" for imaginary things in your head.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 07-28-2016 7:02 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 224 of 1257 (788314)
07-29-2016 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by mike the wiz
07-29-2016 6:25 AM


I'm not sure who said this but it is a prime example of an untested conditional probably based on an strawman version of the flood.
Who said it would be, implicitly, every creationist who attributes the geological and fossil record to the Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by mike the wiz, posted 07-29-2016 6:25 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 225 of 1257 (788316)
07-29-2016 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
07-29-2016 7:23 AM


Re: temporary sidetrack
My point, which ought to be obvious in the context of this discussion, is that I'd expect to find land animals fossilized in an area supposed to have been covered by water ...
And so would I, though for sane reasons. But also you should expect to find marine life in deserts, since you deny they were deserts. Good luck with that.
Claiming that the dinosaurs died and their corpses drifted into the seaway where they were ultimately buried and fossilized is just a clever interpretation designed to deny the Flood.
I should point out that it's not always about you.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 373 of 1257 (788856)
08-05-2016 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
08-05-2016 3:16 PM


ALL of those layers so neatly stacked one on top of another are considered to have once been landscapes that somehow miraculously eroded down and flattened into rock. ALL of them.
Except the ones that either aren't eroded or aren't flat, or which are marine and so would not be considered "landscapes".
I'm not sure that that leaves anything, I'd have to look it up.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 08-05-2016 3:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 08-06-2016 8:20 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 389 of 1257 (788953)
08-08-2016 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Faith
08-06-2016 8:20 AM


You are right that "landscape" doesn't fit the marine environments, but they ARE considered to have been "environments" and to represent the range of life during their "time period" and to have eventually come down to a flat rock, like all the rest in the geo column/strata. That rock now represents that particular time period, whatever is found in the rock considered to be whatever was living in the marine environment when the rock was formed. And that rock was replaced some millions of years later by another rock represented yet another marine environment.
No. Why do you say that? None of the rocks in the geological record have been "replaced", that is why they are still there.
They're all originally flat. All of them.
Quite flat, yes. You remember how in my book I discussed the principle of original horizontality? This is how sediment is deposited by real processes, and so is not evidence of deposition by magical processes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 08-06-2016 8:20 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 08-08-2016 3:50 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 392 of 1257 (788956)
08-08-2016 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Faith
08-08-2016 12:20 PM


Re: Where did the seafloor/landscape go?
What's happened to the seafloor when it's become a rock? What's happened to the landscape when it's become a rock? What happened to the marine life that populated that seafloor; or to the land life that populated that landscape? Where did they go?
The rocks are still there, Faith. This is why there are sedimentary rocks.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 396 of 1257 (788963)
08-08-2016 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Faith
08-08-2016 3:46 PM


Re: Where did the seafloor/landscape go?
I'm not giving my own ideas, I'm giving a parody, I'm describing what must be the case if the standard theory is true.
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Faith, posted 08-08-2016 3:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 08-08-2016 4:18 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 410 of 1257 (788981)
08-08-2016 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
08-08-2016 9:32 PM


Re: Where did the seafloor/landscape go?
Well, it's not my theory that a landscape or seafloor emerged on top of a rock, but according to Geo theory somehow it did. Sedimentation I guess. Then somehow things grew, and then somehow....
No. Not "somehow". We know exactly how real processes work and can point to them happening and observe them. This makes real geology entirely different from your vague daydreams.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 411 of 1257 (788982)
08-08-2016 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by Faith
08-08-2016 4:42 PM


Re: Where did the seafloor/landscape go?
What I was doing was following out the logic of the Geological position ...
No. We have explained to you the logic of the geological position. It is entirely different from the crazy crap that you have made up in your head.

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 Message 401 by Faith, posted 08-08-2016 4:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 412 of 1257 (788983)
08-08-2016 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Faith
08-08-2016 4:18 PM


Re: Where did the seafloor/landscape go?
It's irrelevant if you don't agree with it. That is what I am doing.
No.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Faith, posted 08-08-2016 4:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 445 of 1257 (789089)
08-10-2016 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 442 by Faith
08-10-2016 12:05 PM


Re: Where did the seafloor/landscape go?
Exactly. But this suggests that nothing could have lived from that time period ...
No.
Why in God's name would you say such a thing?
The bodies of dead organisms get buried in sediment all the time, and this is not concomitant with the extinction of all life. For example, my grandmother has been buried, but I am still alive.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 442 by Faith, posted 08-10-2016 12:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 4:38 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 458 of 1257 (789104)
08-10-2016 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by Faith
08-10-2016 12:53 PM


Re: An Apparent Incomsistency
I do? What are you talking about?
It does seem to be implicit in your posts that the normal sedimentary processes that we can see burying organic remains today should have caused the complete extinction of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Faith, posted 08-10-2016 12:53 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 500 of 1257 (789170)
08-11-2016 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Faith
08-11-2016 11:11 AM


Re: misusing logic -- yes you are, jar
Yeah yeah yeah. No the Flood has never been disproved and the efforts are mostly pathetically inadequate notions of what it would have done and what evidence it would have left.
Any time you want another try at reconciling the fossil record with the Flood myth, feel free.
But if you want to say the Flood couldn't explain the phenomena of the Geo Timetscale if that is thoroughly discredited, then how about offering another theory instead?
Ooh, how about ... real geology?
You can learn about this here. Over a hundred thousand words of exposition, none of which are "flooddidit".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 11:11 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 504 of 1257 (789174)
08-11-2016 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by Faith
08-11-2016 10:25 AM


Re: let's take Baby steps... to Nowhere
Without information about exactly how many fossils, complete and incomplete, have been found of ALL creatures (there's an ENORMOUS number of them, as shown on the charts posted back a ways), simply saying that there aren't many complete fossils of a particular kind of dinosaur doesn't really say much.
We don't need to look at "ALL creatures", we could use sampling methods.
For example, consider "Lucy". Here's the bones.
Now, "Lucy" is the most complete specimen in her entire genus. How many is that? According to this article:
In their 1982 physical anthropology textbook, Harry Nelson and Robert Jurmain tabulate the number of specimens. For the five South African sites alone there are some 175 cranial remains, 769 teeth, and 78 postcranial (from the neck down) remains for a total collection of 1,022 items representing some 121 to 157 individuals (1982:393). Elsewhere in their text, they tally data from the East African fossil localities in Tanzania, Ethiopia, and Kenyaa minimum of 475 specimens (teeth and bones) representing at least 100 to 200 individuals (1982: 430-431).
So "Lucy" is the best preserved specimen out of (conservatively) 200+ members of her genus. This tells us that good preservation is rare in australopithecines, and unless there's some special reason why that genus should be particularly badly preserved, we may extrapolate from that.
One can still ask why there are any at all or as many as there are given the rarity of the conditions for fossilization to occur.
The rarity of the conditions is inferred from the number of fossils ...
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 10:25 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 2:31 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 509 of 1257 (789187)
08-11-2016 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Faith
08-11-2016 2:31 PM


Re: let's take Baby steps... to Nowhere
What makes "Lucy" anything but a human being anyway?
The fact that she's an australopithecine.
And I always thought there was a paucity of evidence for homo sapiens anyway.
Perhaps you could point us to a genus which you think is always perfectly preserved.
The higher in the strata the less evidence perhaps?
I don't see why. Also, practically all fossils are found at the top of the strata, where we live. The term you want (but cannot use for religious reasons) is not "higher" but "later".
So this aside let's look at a dinosaur species. According to WP, more than 50 specimens of T. rex have been discovered, of which the most complete is the specimen known as "Sue", which is 73% complete. This figure falls off quite rapidly: "Black Beauty", the 14th most complete specimen, is only 28% complete.
Specimens of Tyrannosaurus - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 2:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by Faith, posted 08-11-2016 5:04 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
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