Glenn Morton's Evidence Examined

Another great evidence in support of an Old Earth (as if even more were needed) are the natural nuclear reactors at Okla in Gabon. They are also a great example of how predictive Science works.Back in 1956 a Japanese American Chemist and Nuclear Scientist made a prediction that under certain conditions a natural nuclear reactor could form and that it would have certain characteristics.In 1972 a routine sampling of ores from a mine in Gabon showed a discrepancy in the expected percentage of ²³⁵U, a large enough discrepancy to require understanding and explanation since tracking and accounting for radioactive materials used in the nuclear industry was both required and emmently necessary.Investigation showed that at the site in Gabon there had been 16 separate examples of natural nuclear reactors. The mechanism was ground water penetration of sandstone acting as a moderator to allow chain reactions to take place. The chain reaction in turn boiled off the water which stopped the reaction until water again seeped into the deposit starting the cycle anew. Each cycle lasted only a few hours but the process continued for over several hundred thousands of years until the percentage of fissionable material reached a point chain reactions could no longer happen.The age of the deposit is around 1.7 billion years old.So what is the evidence to support the conclusion of natural nuclear reactors?First was the missing ²³⁵U and when investigated further pockets with even lower concentrations of ²³⁵U were found.Those figures match what is seen in modern nuclear reactors.Additional studies showed the presence and percentages of waste nuclear products again at the same ratios and isotope signatures as found in modern reactors; by products predicted and actually found included radon, ruthenium and neodymium and in isotope combinations different that what occurs naturally but the same as what is found in nuclear reactor wastes.The evidence that it was a moderated controlled reaction is two fold. First the presence of uranium ores at the site that do not show signs of having gone into a controlled chain reaction and second the fact that there were no signs of detonation or explosion.Since the process is fairly well understood the times involved to produce the evidence seen could be calculated with a fairly high precision factor.

The Galaxy NGC 6264 is another really great example that supports an Old Earth and even Older Universe.The important thing about NGC 6264 is that the light from the galaxy as well as radio waves from the galaxy have reached the Earth and so it is also one of the astronomical objects whose distance has been directly measured. Using the US based radio telescope systems and radio wave range interferometers located all over the US territories from Puerto Rico to Hawaii a direct parallax measurement has been made and repeatedly verified. The galaxy NGC 6264 is over 400 million light years from the Earth by taking readings six months apart giving us a minimum directly measured age of not less than 450 million years.The importance of this is that it is not a matter of interpretation but rather simple trigonometry. This ain't rocket science or imaginary or illusion or fantasy, it's jess math.

The Hawaii/Emperor Sea Mount Chain has already been discussed as an example of evidence that the Earth is old but there is yet another similar chain, perhaps even older, that is seldom mentioned and that is the New England Seamount Chain that stretches from the White Mountain in Maine/New Hampshire all the way to the Azores. There are more than 20 extinct volcanoes and the New England chain is just part of the Great Meteor Hot Spot chain which includes over 80 volcanoes. The oldest of these are near Hudson Bay and date back to over 200 million years ago. The White Mountains are an example of magma intrusions and was formed about 120 million years ago.What is important and significant is that the White Mountain magma intrusions must be younger than the rocks around them which makes the White Mountains themselves older than 120 million years.The entire chain stretches for a distance of over 3000 miles.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin is ----> in

There is another local hot spot chain that is of interest since like the Hawaii/Emperor Chain it is far from extinct and that is the Snake River/Yellowstone Chain, a continental chain that stretches from Oregon to Yellowstone itself and is a series of caldera forming super eruptions that began over 16 million years ago with the most recent eruption only a little over 174 thousand years ago and last super eruption about 640 thousand years ago.One of the really useful things about these eruptions is that the Tuff produced by each event has distinct physical and chemical characteristics which allows direct dating of different layers of Tuff found as far away as Kansas to specific known events.

Faith, it would be useful if you would address several issues I have raised;specifically the fact that there really are almost no uninhabitable landscape on Earth as pointed out in Message 181. Perhaps you can provide us with an example of an uninhabitable landscape?the existence of the Okla Nuclear Reactors as pointed out in Message 218.the existence of NGC 6264 as pointed out in Message 224.the New England Sea Mount Chain as pointed out in Message 225.and the existence of the Snake River/Yellowstone Chain as pointed out in Message 226.Once you have presented a Young Earth model, method, mechanism, process, procedure or Thingamabob that actually explains five issues we can move on to look for explanations for the thousands of other specific examples that must be explained by a Young Earth scenario.

Maybe asking five whole questions was too much to try to squeeze into a little Young Earth Fantasy so let's try just one for now:From Message 224

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The Galaxy NGC 6264 is another really great example that supports an Old Earth and even Older Universe.

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The important thing about NGC 6264 is that the light from the galaxy as well as radio waves from the galaxy have reached the Earth and so it is also one of the astronomical objects whose distance has been directly measured.

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Using the US based radio telescope systems and radio wave range interferometers located all over the US territories from Puerto Rico to Hawaii a direct parallax measurement has been made and repeatedly verified. The galaxy NGC 6264 is over 400 million light years from the Earth by taking readings six months apart giving us a minimum directly measured age of not less than 450 million years.

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The importance of this is that it is not a matter of interpretation but rather simple trigonometry. This ain't rocket science or imaginary or illusion or fantasy, it's jess math.

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But there is no need to dream up any arguments since Old Earth models do explain what is seen, including NGC 6264.If Young Earth is to be considered as anything more than a fantasy then it must be capable of a better explanation of what exists than the current Old Earth model.NGC 6264 is a great example since it is a simply trigonometry issue using only known and verifiable techniques.If there is no valid Young Earth model that can explain NGC 6264 then Young Earth must be tossed on the trash heap of history as nothing but a fantasy.From Message 224

quote:

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The Galaxy NGC 6264 is another really great example that supports an Old Earth and even Older Universe.

​

The important thing about NGC 6264 is that the light from the galaxy as well as radio waves from the galaxy have reached the Earth and so it is also one of the astronomical objects whose distance has been directly measured.

​

Using the US based radio telescope systems and radio wave range interferometers located all over the US territories from Puerto Rico to Hawaii a direct parallax measurement has been made and repeatedly verified. The galaxy NGC 6264 is over 400 million light years from the Earth by taking readings six months apart giving us a minimum directly measured age of not less than 450 million years.

​

The importance of this is that it is not a matter of interpretation but rather simple trigonometry. This ain't rocket science or imaginary or illusion or fantasy, it's jess math.

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Fortunately the issue of NGC 6264 is not technical at all and so not at all difficult to understand.NGC 6264 exists whether you care about it or not. It is what is called a fact.Both light and radio signals from NGC 6264 have reached the Earth. Those too are facts.The distance to NGC 6264 has been directly measured using simple geometry. Again, simply a fact.The distance from Earth to NGC 6264 is at least 450 million light years. Again, simply a fact.Since light has reached the Earth it must have left NGC 6264 and been in transit for at least 450 million years. Again, simply a statement of fact.There are galaxies that are even further from the Earth and whose light has also reached the Earth. Again, more basic facts.Therefore the Universe must be at older than 450 million years. And again a simple conclusion based only on facts.Since the Biblical Creation myths has the Earth created during the same week as the rest of the Universe the Earth must be at least over 450 million years old. Again, simply a statement of fact describing what was written in the Bible stories.It really is simple Faith and no interpretations, just facts but of course you do need to read the questions before you can answer them.Once this is explained we can move on to the other small issues that Young Earth must explain to be considered anything but a fantasy. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

You keep saying that but it makes no sense.As I pointed out in Message 181 and other posts:

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Faith keeps claiming that the geological column is evidence of uninhabitable landscapes.

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That is absolute utter nonsense. There are almost no uninhabitable landscapes on the surface of the earth, near the surface of the earth in the lakes and rivers of the earth, in the seas of the earth, in the skies of the earth and the few local uninhabitable landscapes that do exist are transient, very localized and very soon colonized.

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Faith either need to stop asserting such nonsense or provide examples that can be examined because so far all the examples she has mentioned are not uninhabitable and in fact are inhabited.

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Those exception are active lava flows, areas of noxious gasses like CO2 bubble zones, areas immediately buried by a catastrophe like volcanic ash or mud slides and all of those are rapidly colonized as soon as conditions change but most extreme environments are inhabitable including volcanic mineral springs, deserts, mud flats, brine lakes, glaciers, snow covered areas, tundra, volcano cones, even bare rock surfaces.

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Maybe since you cannot explain NGC 6264 as first mentioned in Message 224 you can explain what wastelands on Earth are uninhabitable?

According to the Bible the lights in the sky, the Earth and the Universe were all created in the same week.Now reality has shown us that is false; the Universe is much older than the Earth, but the light and radio waves have reached Earth and so the Universe must be at least as old as the time it took for the light and radio waves to get to earth. Fortunately we have been able to pretty accurately measure the distance to NGC 6264.That gives us a minimum age for the universe.Fortunately there are also many things right here on Earth that can also give us minimum ages and the Okla Reatiors as pointed out in Message 218 are a great example:

quote:

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Another great evidence in support of an Old Earth (as if even more were needed) are the natural nuclear reactors at Okla in Gabon. They are also a great example of how predictive Science works.

​

Back in 1956 a Japanese American Chemist and Nuclear Scientist made a prediction that under certain conditions a natural nuclear reactor could form and that it would have certain characteristics.

​

In 1972 a routine sampling of ores from a mine in Gabon showed a discrepancy in the expected percentage of 235U, a large enough discrepancy to require understanding and explanation since tracking and accounting for radioactive materials used in the nuclear industry was both required and emmently necessary.

​

Investigation showed that at the site in Gabon there had been 16 separate examples of natural nuclear reactors. The mechanism was ground water penetration of sandstone acting as a moderator to allow chain reactions to take place. The chain reaction in turn boiled off the water which stopped the reaction until water again seeped into the deposit starting the cycle anew. Each cycle lasted only a few hours but the process continued for over several hundred thousands of years until the percentage of fissionable material reached a point chain reactions could no longer happen.

​

The age of the deposit is around 1.7 billion years old.

​

So what is the evidence to support the conclusion of natural nuclear reactors?

​

First was the missing 235U and when investigated further pockets with even lower concentrations of 235U were found.

​

Those figures match what is seen in modern nuclear reactors.

​

Additional studies showed the presence and percentages of waste nuclear products again at the same ratios and isotope signatures as found in modern reactors; by products predicted and actually found included radon, ruthenium and neodymium and in isotope combinations different that what occurs naturally but the same as what is found in nuclear reactor wastes.

​

The evidence that it was a moderated controlled reaction is two fold. First the presence of uranium ores at the site that do not show signs of having gone into a controlled chain reaction and second the fact that there were no signs of detonation or explosion.

​

Since the process is fairly well understood the times involved to produce the evidence seen could be calculated with a fairly high precision factor.

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Correct. Old fumble fingers create appalin spallin.And it is also yet another issue still not addressed.

I see that once again the topic has been changed without going through the standard procedures here at EvC.That is a normal tactic of Creationists, the reason they created the Avoidance Schools, Colleges, Accreditation organizations, web browsers and media networks.If you cannot answer issues then the solution is to simply ignore them and make it impossible to even discuss them.No biggie. The issues still exist.

One thing that might have an influence is the material involved. It's possible, likely even to find underground structures that might look like a river valley system if talking about a limestone structure but far less likely if looking at a layer of sandstone I would think. A second indicator might be the presence of two or more different materials showing a change in deposition.

I am talking about detecting buried structures. If a river valley then gets filled in by another layer there is a likelihood that the material filling in the valley can be differentiated from the material that formed the original valley and that it will extend beyond the limits of the valley and over the surrounding original material. This could not happen underground and is an indication that what is seen was formed at the surface.

Limestone can be dissolved by water following small cracks fairly rapidly. Sandstone is not dissolved by water and in fact the water is likely to leach out minerals and deposit minerals increasing cementation.