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Author | Topic: The 2016 United States Presidential Election | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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RAZD writes: ...but this is also how militarization creep occurs: making it more "normal" to see military in everyday life, ... Yes, that's what I was trying to bring attention to. Pre-WWII German history is frightening for its implications about what can be made to seem "normal". It is remarkable how quickly the German people adjusted to life with Hitler's atrocities. For example, German courts had little problem conforming their rulings to Nazi realities after the Night of the Long Knives (a 1934 Nazi purge that murdered hundreds). We should ask ourselves certain questions now while they're still hypothetical: Would we speak out against laws restricting the rights of Muslims or illegal aliens. Would we have the courage to hide them in our homes while the police are breaking down doors? --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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NoNukes writes: Consider what's going on in Europe. THAT's the trend, not deporting illegals (as if that's the same thing as sending Jews to concenttration camps anyway.
That would not be the appropriate comparison. The appropriate comparison is the scapegoating of Jews as the source of Germany's problems, and the blaming of immigrants, legal and otherwise for current woes and placing restrictions, constitutional or otherwise on them. No, not the same thing. But before the Germany got around to putting Jews in camps the Nazi issued hundreds of decrees restriction various phases of their lives including excluding them from certain occupations, admission to schools, placing obstacles to their practicing their dietary requirements, operating a business, etc. Yes, this captures the kinds of things I was alluding to. If I could comment on a few recent rather wild messages that have been posted, I don't see any sense in scapegoating the right or the left, and I am not blaming the right. Republican successes and the election of Trump are expressions of social, economic and political forces within the country, not their cause, just as was the success of the Nazi party within Germany in the 1932 elections that resulted in the compromise appointment of Hitler as Chancellor. There are no jackbooted goosestepping storm troopers in our streets, but that's not the point. The point isn't that we *are* the Germany of the 1930's but that we're exposed to forces similar to the ones that led Germany down a road to ultimate annihilation. Democracies in Europe face similar problems. Trump does play an active role in promoting the comparison to pre-WWII Germany and Hitler. Saying things such as threatening to arrest your political opponent will do that. If one were to ask oneself which president of the past 220 years would be most likely to declare martial law and eventually give himself dictatorial powers, which one would it be? Jimmy Carter, right? Just kidding. It's Trump, of course. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
If Trump really has knowledge that voter fraud was committed by Democrats on a massive scale, why has he mounted a legal challenge to the recount efforts in Michigan?
That question is actually just a statement of what we already know: that Trump frequently makes completely false claims, including ones he knows are false. He just can't seem to help himself. He has a finely honed instinct for what his followers want to hear, and if they want to hear it then he enthusiastically and confidently says it, true or not. If he really knew the Democrats had committed massive voter fraud in Michigan he would be vigorously supporting the recount effort. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
NoNukes writes: The stories about the Jews were all made up, What stories about Jews do you refer to here as being made up? I think Faith was trying to say that pre-WWII German authorities concocted stories of Jews working against the best interests of the state, in the end falsely holding Jews responsible for a host of German ills. She was contrasting it to our current situation where we can trust that everything Trump and the alt-media say about immigrants and Muslims is true, and thank God we have Faith's assurances that there's no racism or bias involved in scapegoating entire classes or races of people. More seriously, your endorsement of vetting is the right encouragement, but for too many people the attraction of what they already believe is too powerful for any evidence. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Not sure what point you're making, but I did wonder about this:
quote: Voter registration cards? We don't have them in New Hampshire. Do many states have them? Just what I need, another card to stuff in my wallet. I recently discovered that there's something called, I think, an enhanced driver's license. The holder told me it allows him to cross between the US, Canada and Mexico without a passport. I'm guessing that they record the passage between countries by computer and so do not need a passport to stamp. I like the idea of consolidating passport and driver's license into a single ID. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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caffeine writes: I actually agree with Faith on this one. I, too, am with Faith and I think most other people on this one, but the unfortunate hotel owner is not the point here. Faith offered him as evidence of what is happening in Europe:
Faith in Message 515 writes: ...German citizens who are being forced out of their homes so that the Muslim refugees can move in...A poor old guy who runs a small hotel has been forced to give it up to the Muslim refugees. THAT is what is on the agenda for America, if Hillary got elected. But this isn't what is happening in Europe. I think everyone on both sides of the political fence is against shoving people off their property to make way for refugees, but it's a big world out there and one can always find examples of the unfair, the arbitrary, the wrong. There's a big difference between trends and policies on the one hand and one-time unusual events on the other. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Thought you would never see a George Orwell line come to life? Think again. This is Trump supporter Scottie Nell Hughes speaking on the Diane Rehm Show:
quote: The most recent example that comes to mind of a Trump "fact" is that he'd been planning the phone call to the Taiwan president for some time. The man doesn't even know what he's going to say five minutes from now, let alone months ahead. And apparently the Trump camp still hasn't given up on arresting those they disagree with. Trump's former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski threatened New York Times executive editor Dean Baquet by declaring "He should be in jail" just for stating that he'd be willing to go to jail to get a copy of Trump's taxes. Which Trump still hasn't released and probably never will. For every man who warned of the true implications of Hitler's rise to power in Germany there were a hundred others who dismissed the warnings, who believed democracy had become enshrined in the western world, who thought no one could want war again after WWI, who asserted that outside influences would diminish Hitler's impact, who claimed Hitler was too outlandish for his talk to be believed, who thought he would make obvious missteps and lose power. The lesson is to not underestimate the maniacal and powermad. These are dark times. We can't just watch on warily. We must oppose the descent into darkness at every turn. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Since it's not really the topic, and given the season, perhaps those who cannot be charitable toward their fellow man or fellow religions or fellow anyone or anything could find somewhere else to post such things for a few weeks. Maybe in a thread titled "Hate". Maybe their blog. They could even become genuinely inactive, instead of being false about it.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Modulous writes: What would it take for you to drop your overall support of Trump? It would take the ability to cast a critical eye on all information and to weave legitimate information into a coherent and consistent whole. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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I've never understood the objection. Naturally born US citizenship includes both by parentage and by place of birth, so even if Barak Obama had no Hawaiin birth certificate and had instead been born in Kenya he would still be a naturally born US citizen because his mother was a US citizen. Ted Cruz, born in Canada, is a naturally born US citizen for the same reason.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Adminnemooseus's Message 737 in full:
Adminnemooseus writes: BIRTHERISM STUFF IS OFF-TOPIC! Participants were massively warned. I don't feel like doing the work to do the suspensions, but if any such thing appears after this message without being justifiably tied to the 2016 election, I am going to drop the hammer (it may take some time because my internet access might be limited). ADMINNEMOOSEUS Discussion about Obama's place of birth could transition over to The Brand New Birther Thread. It's not "brand new" anymore, but at least it's on-topic. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Detailed report from the New York Times:
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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Can we now put to bed the ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton was the candidate more likely to escalate tensions and cause war? Today's Washington Post describes Trump's threat to begin a new nuclear arms race: A tense new battle over nuclear arms erupts between Donald Trump and his staff
And here the New York Times describes Trump's desire to expand Israeli West Bank settlements, escalating tensions between Israelis and Palestinians: Trump Pressures Obama Over U.N. Resolution on Israeli Settlements If Trump's actual message is, "I'm crazy so everybody better back off," I think he's convinced everyone of the first part. What we've got here is four years of The Apprentice writ large, with the world playing the role of apprentice. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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From the LA Times: Americans who voted against Trump are feeling unprecedented dread and despair. I think this article pretty well sums up how those of us who voted against Trump feel, and why we're right in feeling this way. Some excerpts:
quote: --Percy Edited by Percy, : Fix link.
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Oops! Link fixed. That message still got two votes - apparently iOS statistics are popular.
--Percy
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