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Author Topic:   The DNA similarity of humans and chimps 96% and 99% history
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 65 days)
Posts: 4600
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 1 of 6 (791259)
09-13-2016 2:10 PM


Has anyone noticed the trend as the percentage similarity of chimps/humans comes down? For many years it was 98 or 99%, then after a few years it comes down some more, but the rhetoric increases.

Scientists have sequenced the genome of the chimpanzee and found that humans are 96 percent similar to the great ape species.
"Darwin wasn't just provocative in saying that we descend from the apes—he didn't go far enough," said Frans de Waal, a primate scientist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. "We are apes in every way, from our long arms and tailless bodies to our habits and temperament."

http://news.national...himp_genes.html

"We are apes in every way" seems to be predicated on, "long arms" and, "tailless bodies". Is that, "every way?" Oh dear, the list has ran out fast, four features and one of them he gets wrong, despite being an anatomist. Another he gets wrong is, "habits". That's just plainly bad logic, because I don't recall an ape painting an oil on canvas or playing tennis, or worshipping God, the last time I looked.

This expert doesn't seem to know that all apes have arms longer than their legs but humans don't. This guy is called a, "primate scientist", yet doesn't seem to know why a fully bipedal human would need relatively long arms, for balance. So the reason apes have longer arms is for brachiation, arboreal locomotion. Humans have arms of a certain favourable length for reasons of bipedalism;

wiki writes:

Arm swing in human bipedal walking is a natural motion that each arm swings with the motion of the opposing leg. Swinging arms in an opposing direction with respect to the lower-limb reduces the angular momentum of the body, balancing the rotational motion produced during walking. Although such pendulum-like motion of arms is not essential for walking, recent studies point that arm swing improves the stability and energy efficiency in human locomotion.
https://en.wikipedia...uman_locomotion

So it seems that we only have one thing left in common with apes, we are tailless. (but of course, apart from primate features, collar-bone, forward face, etc,..but then my argument isn't that we are not primates but I refer to the differences within the group of primate.)

It also seems the "96%" figure instead of 99% similarity, seems to make evolutionists argue that we are even MORE like apes, not less (contradictory reasoning).

Indeed, the more the percentage decreases, the more the rhetoric increases; "we are apes!! Not just descended from apes like Darwin said, but now it is 96% instead of 99% so we are in fact now classed as super-duper apes, even super duper calafragalisticapespialidocious , ape-apes, of the super duper ape category, ape, ape, ape,....just keep saying it, then say it some more. APES!!!"

What will they say when eventually the percentage comes down to 93% or less?

Here is a fictional prediction;

Reporter; "Dr B, what does this new figure mean?"
Dr B; "Well Sally, it's remarkable, I mean you just won't believe it, but this shows that before, even though we thought we were apes, and then we knew we were apes with the 96% figure, now it is 93%, then I have to tell you - this is the planet of the apes! Ape, ape, ape! I cannot tell you how ape humans are! In fact, what is a human? Ditch that term! For now I speak as all apes speak, as a thorough ape! A super-duper, fender bending, gun-toting, super-ape. I've had my costume made, I will appear in the latest musical, as super-ape."
Reporter: "That's the best science I have heard in years. Your logical prowess never ceased to amaze me, what an ape-solutely flushbunking success for evolution theory!"


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 09-13-2016 2:30 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Taq, posted 09-13-2016 2:41 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded
 Message 5 by CRR, posted 02-01-2017 8:05 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
AdminAsgara
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Message 2 of 6 (791261)
09-13-2016 2:19 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the The DNA similarity of humans and chimps 96% and 99% history thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13368
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 3 of 6 (791262)
09-13-2016 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
09-13-2016 2:10 PM


No real decrease
Different ways of measuring DNA similarity - different in what they count - give different results. Which should not be a big surprise.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 09-13-2016 2:10 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(5)
Message 4 of 6 (791263)
09-13-2016 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
09-13-2016 2:10 PM


mike the wiz writes:

Has anyone noticed the trend as the percentage similarity of chimps/humans comes down? For many years it was 98 or 99%, then after a few years it comes down some more, but the rhetoric increases.

There still is a 98% similarity between the DNA shared by chimps and humans. The 96% comes from the insertion and deletion events (i.e. indels) that adds or subtracts DNA from either genome. There are many ways to compare genomes, and the substitution rate is still a good way of comparing genomes.

At the end of the day, the number really doesn't matter. What really matters is the relative distance between genomes. As it turns out, chimps share more DNA with humans than they do with gorillas or orangutans. If chimps are an ape, then so too are humans since chimps are more closely related to humans than they are any other ape species.

"We are apes in every way" seems to be predicated on, "long arms" and, "tailless bodies". Is that, "every way?" Oh dear, the list has ran out fast, four features and one of them he gets wrong, despite being an anatomist. Another he gets wrong is, "habits". That's just plainly bad logic, because I don't recall an ape painting an oil on canvas or playing tennis, or worshipping God, the last time I looked.

This expert doesn't seem to know that all apes have arms longer than their legs but humans don't. This guy is called a, "primate scientist", yet doesn't seem to know why a fully bipedal human would need relatively long arms, for balance. So the reason apes have longer arms is for brachiation, arboreal locomotion. Humans have arms of a certain favourable length for reasons of bipedalism;

The anatomical similarities are unavoidable.

If you can't see the striking similarities between chimps and humans, then you are simply in denial. There are no other species groups that are more like humans than apes.

Also, there is an ape species that paints pictures on canvases and plays tennis. That ape species is Homo sapiens.

Reporter; "Dr B, what does this new figure mean?"
Dr B; "Well Sally, it's remarkable, I mean you just won't believe it, but this shows that before, even though we thought we were apes, and then we knew we were apes with the 96% figure, now it is 93%, then I have to tell you - this is the planet of the apes! Ape, ape, ape! I cannot tell you how ape humans are! In fact, what is a human? Ditch that term! For now I speak as all apes speak, as a thorough ape! A super-duper, fender bending, gun-toting, super-ape. I've had my costume made, I will appear in the latest musical, as super-ape."
Reporter: "That's the best science I have heard in years. Your logical prowess never ceased to amaze me, what an ape-solutely flushbunking success for evolution theory!"

We have sequenced greater than 95% of the chimp and human genomes, so the numbers aren't going to change much. At the end of the day, what matters is the relative distance between the ape species. As already stated, chimps share more DNA with humans than they do any other ape species. That makes humans apes.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 09-13-2016 2:10 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
CRR
Member
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 5 of 6 (798222)
02-01-2017 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
09-13-2016 2:10 PM


The myth of 1%
The myth of 1% difference started in the 1970's using DNA hybridization on selected samples.

You might be able to find a copy of "Relative Differences: The Myth of 1%", Jon Cohen, Science 29 Jun 2007. Unfortunately the original is behind a paywall.

The real difference is probably more than 10%. The changes include around 35 million base-pair changes, over 700 genes, the increase in brain mass, as well as the obvious ability to walk on two feet and talk.

Here's a podcast where Dr. Ann Gauger discusses the differences between human and chimpanzee genomes. http://www.discovery.org/...ns-are-different-pt-1-the-genome

Edited by CRR, : revised


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 09-13-2016 2:10 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10116
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 6 of 6 (798229)
02-01-2017 8:56 AM


Warning: Trolls lurking under bridge.
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