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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religion or Science - How do they compare? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
GDR writes: jar writes: Repeating falsehoods, even if you believe them true, does constitute lying. No. Here is the Oxford definition.
quote: Thank you GDR for giving the only sane messages on this subject.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Calling Protestants committing evil off topic does not cover up anything Faith. What I am saying is no more difficult to understand than that. But you are totally wrong to impute the topic to me. I'm talking about official DOCTRINE, not what individuals may do, or even whole biased segments of a church, which often violates official doctrine and the Bible. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
jar writes: If Faith said "I don't believe Roman Catholics are Christians."; then she is just showing her utter ignorance. If faith says "Roman Catholics are not Christians."; then she is lying. Both statements are false in any case, but I would point you to my Message 387 to NoNukes for the explanation that I don't say "Roman Catholics" are not Christians but that Roman CatholiCISM and specifically the PAPACY are not Christian. Please try to get it right.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What are the motives of science in general? To understand how things work. What are the motives of religion? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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The fact remains that Roman Catholicism is still Christian Faith despite your fantasies.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
RAZD writes: Phat writes: What are the motives of science in general? To understand how things work. What are the motives of religion? To understand how everything works.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
That might be a reasonable position to take with those who seem to understand there is a difference between belief and reality.
But there are many where it seems that they cannot differentiate between belief and reality.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
So... if the conclusions you derive are false, which they are, then your belief must be wrongly invested in a false God. And if belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world among many other things.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: Phat writes:
Haven't you heard that there are more religious people in prisons? ive never seen evidence that religious people are slower than any other regarding moral actions. This point is worth stressing. This article says that atheists make Up 0.1% of the federal prison population but 3.1% of the general population. The number of atheists in federal prison is about 97% lower than one would expect based on demographics. The reason for this can be argued. One argument would be that atheists are more moral than non-atheists. A different argument would be that incarceration helps people find religion. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
When only one person reads the Bible and that one point of view is followed by others, cults develop. If many readers are consulted, it is more likely that the best interpretation will be the result. So if one guy read Genesis and concluded that God lied and the snake told the truth, even if he could show it in the words, it likely would be a cult following that agreed with him, correct?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: So if one guy read Genesis and concluded that God lied and the snake told the truth, even if he could show it in the words, it likely would be a cult following that agreed with him, correct? But what is actually written in the story Phat?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Phat writes: So if one guy read Genesis and concluded that God lied and the snake told the truth, even if he could show it in the words, it likely would be a cult following that agreed with him, correct? Correct. Because words are subject to different interpretations and the interpretation with the most counsellors with the best reputations is the one passed on as traditional accepted doctrine. It is understood by all the best theologians that all parts of the Bible are to be read in the light of all the other parts. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But there are many where it seems that they cannot differentiate between belief and reality. Which describes you very nicely, jar, since you believe you are a Christian though the reality is that you are not because you don't believe the essential things that would make you a Christian. And you believe that the Pope is a Christian though the reality is that he is not, as I showed in Message 387. And you believe that you understand the Bible though the reality is that you do not. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: How's about a little note on the topic of this thread, how religion and science compare? Well, science in its best most reliable form, which has developed only quite recently, is designed to discover truths about the physical world in a way that can be verified by others who follow the same procedures for testing it (which can't be said for the historical sciences but that's another subject),... Science doesn't really "discover truths about the physical world." It can only uncover what is likely true about the physical world. The part about testing (replicability) is true, while the part characterizing historical sciences as untestable is false.
...while the Bible (not "religion"), God's own revelation to His confused fallen human race, provides us with reliable facts mostly about spiritual things but also a few physical things, that are to be trusted because they come from God. This is what some people believe.
Both are sources of reliable knowledge if rightly understood and followed. Considered from a factual, testable standpoint, the Bible contains both true and false information. It also contains a great deal of unverifiable information. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: Yes, and if science rightly handles the evidence so that others can verify it, science is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world. Rephrasing, you're saying that science based upon unverifiable evidence is unreliable (and you should include untestable and/or impossible claims as well). But such attempts at science are rejected by the scientific community. It is because of the requirements of evidence and replicability that science has shown itself to be the best method we have of understanding the natural world.
And if belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world among many other things. Some people believe this, but religion lacks requirements for evidence and replicability, so it isn't possible to verify its claims. --Percy
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