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Author | Topic: Christianity and the End Times | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Marketing is offering a product. I'm saying there is no product, no snake oil that will fix everything that ails you. So I wouldn't say I'm marketing anything. Promising nothing but blood, sweat, toil and tears is not what I would call marketing. Am I right in that you market that there is no rescuer...no bailout...no hope outside of ourselves? (It occurs to me that that's about what God promised Adam and Eve when they grew up.)And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Even if your assessment of fulfilled prophecy is correct, that's no reason to assume that any other prophecy will be fulfilled. Say there's a 40% accuracy rate to this point in time. It could just be worse than random guessing. You'd need near 100% to conclude that there was a divine origin - but of course you can' t have that because you conveniently push all of the unfulfilled prophecies into our future. A lot of fulfillfed prophecy there to give us reason to expect unfulfilled prophecy will be fulfilled. Edited by ringo, : Spelling on my fone.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
He was. Are you thus teaching us that Jesus was WRONG?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Maybe that's a hint that they didn't? How then did the disciples write the Greek New Testament?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I would argue that I don't care one way or the other, so bias doesn't enter into it. Of course if you have little support for your opinion it's natural to want to believe that one position is as good as another. I would argue that you tend to be biased, much as I am the other way.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Things that are "well written" are usually edited. The quality of the final result doesn't necessarily tell us much about the author. Nobody writes Greek that well without being a native speaker.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Faith uses "revisionist" as a swear-word, as if the "traditional" ideas should never be challenged. There's nothing wrong with revising our thinking as new evidence is discovered. Remember how bleeding was traditional before medical science revised its thinking? The Zondervan source is not known for revisionist thinking....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Did you read my post at all? Did you miss this part?
Traditional views should NOT every be challenged...quote:Do you think we should still be bleeding people because it's traditional? Come on. Use your head for once. Faith writes:
That's like saying nobody should challenge criminals except other criminals - a truly idiotic statement.
... except by other traditionalists on minor points. Faith writes:
It has nothing to do with the supernatural. It has to do with looking at the facts, like medical science looked at the facts and decided that the tradition of bleeding was more harmful than helpful. The antisupernatural scholars have no business saying anything at all about it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That doesn't make a bit of sense. He couldn't repeat what had already been said? Why not? He couldn't bring different sources together in one place? Why not? He had no reason to write what was already known to believers, all the wriotings he starts out saying were well known./ The only source therefore that he COULD have used would have been UNKNOWN to believers.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Yes, bringing different sources together in one place adds them together.
He wants to ADD to their knowledge... Faith writes:
He doesn't say that. He says that he understands the events, not that he experienced them.
... from his own experience. Faith writes:
Nope. He doesn't say that. ... but he wants to give him MORE information from his OWN knowledge.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
The ad hominem just illustrates the fact that there is no substance to your position. I'm so sorry to learn of your mental handicaps that prevent you from reading and understanding and making correct inferencesfrom simple information.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Taking it where it leads is a bad thing?
I use the Bible to support my beliefs. It's nearly worthless to use it with you because you take it where it leads... Phat writes:
Do you value the Bible only because all other texts have no value? ... and finds value in other religious texts as well as Mark Twain....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It's strange then that what you repeat to us is usually nonsense and not from the Bible. I note how you cite two commentators who told you what to think about the Bible.
The Bible is God speaking to us. Faith writes:
You should try opening it when you post here. Maybe then you wouldn't be such a screaming harpy. I can hardly open its pages without being overwhelmed by a palpable sense of peace that seems to emanate from it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course you don't - because you don't like what it says about Him. You cherry-pick the bits you like and ignore the rest.
... I'm not going to simply use the Bible to find out about Him. Phat writes:
Your inner unction is a maze with no exit.
... what type of maze would I find myself in if I had no point of reference apart from an inner unction? Phat writes:
Yes, inner unction should always be questioned. Inner unction is the source of impulses good and bad.
...you initially questioned your inner unction before you let your Faith blossom it into an idea and then a belief. Phat writes:
It isn't even a question of "instead". Everybody should go with evidence and science first. Then, if there's no evidence, you can fall back on faith. Faith should never, ever, ever be the starting point for anything. You went with evidence and science instead...And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Really, these discussions would go a lot smoother if you understood what evidence is. Once again you don't get your own evidence; everybody has the same evidence.
If your statement were presented to my group for criticism, they would run to the Bible...our source of evidence. Phat writes:
Thomas. Can you find anything in the Bible that supports your philosophy? Ironically enough, though he is derisively called "Doubting" Thomas by the faith crowd, it wasn't he who demanded evidence; it was Jesus who offered it:
1. Jesus offered evidence to the disciples - but Thomas wasn't there (John 20:19-20). So the moral of the story is: Don't believe what the commentators tell you.
2. The disciples told Thomas that they had seen Jesus - but he didn't believe THEM (John 20:24-25). 3. Jesus offered Thomas THE SAME EVIDENCE that he had shown the disciples (John 20:26-28). Phat writes:
Every scientific paper puts evidence ahead of faith. They don't consider faith at all. Show me two articles by any modern psychologist or teacher that confirms your philosophy regarding evidence and science opposing faith and being superior to faith.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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