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Author Topic:   Life, survival, reproduction
RAZD
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Message 1 of 7 (844841)
12-06-2018 9:54 AM


A seemingly simple topic:

What are the goals, if any, for life?

I'd say there are two:

1. survival
2. reproduction

Evolution is just along for the ride.

For this thread consider the smallest unit of life to be a breeding population.

As long as some some of the breeding population survive and it produces offspring, then life has succeeded.

Every breeding population has some advantageous mutations, as evidenced by those that survive and breed better than others.

Every breeding population has some disadvantageous mutations, as evidenced by those that don't survive and reproduce or do so marginally with little input to the gene pool.

Every breeding population has some neutral mutations, as evidenced by apparent lack of mutation that either help nor hinder the population from breeding.

Every breeding population is subject to stochastic events that have nothing to do with fitness, but result in random chance altering the makeup of the breeding pool available for reproduction. (Genetic Drift)

This is why evolution is just along for the ride.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by dwise1, posted 12-06-2018 12:48 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4 by Tangle, posted 12-06-2018 2:02 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
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AdminNosy
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Message 2 of 7 (844843)
12-06-2018 10:19 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Life, survival, reproduction thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
dwise1
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Message 3 of 7 (844847)
12-06-2018 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
12-06-2018 9:54 AM


This is why evolution is just along for the ride.

Agreed.

A basic definition for evolution that I've developed is: Evolution is the side effects of life doing what life does. No special processes, no special forces. Just life carrying on and going about its business.

How life started has no effect on the matter. Evolution is what life does after having gotten started. Same thing if all life were supernaturally created and same thing if life developed through purely natural processes with absolutely no supernatural influences and same thing if life developed through purely natural processes set up and influenced by the supernatural. If doesn't matter how life got started; as soon as that happened life started evolving.

So to understand how evolution works, first understand how life works.


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Tangle
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Message 4 of 7 (844851)
12-06-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
12-06-2018 9:54 AM


RAZD writes:

I'd say there are two

I'd say there was one; survive long enough to reproduce.


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"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
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RAZD
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Posts: 19720
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 5 of 7 (844856)
12-06-2018 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
12-06-2018 9:54 AM


and the Theory of Evolution (ToE) is ...
What are the goals, if any, for life?

I'd say there are two:

1. survival
2. reproduction

Evolution is just along for the ride.

The theory of evolution (ToE) is that this is sufficient to explain all the diversity of life as we know it.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 12-06-2018 9:54 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

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AZPaul3
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Message 6 of 7 (844870)
12-07-2018 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
12-06-2018 4:45 PM


Re: and the Theory of Evolution (ToE) is ...
The theory of evolution (ToE) is that this is sufficient to explain all the diversity of life as we know it.

A sideways addendum if I may:

In the beginning the reproduction that takes place is a chemical imperative without any choice.

Got matter? Got energy gradient?

Electrons detach, attach in accordance with the electro-chemical state present in the surrounding stuff. Collections of atoms change their positions and detach/attach with other collections of atoms.

Then some configuration is achieved that fosters the gradients/matter to (more or less) produce copies of the original configuration.

As long as the supply of stuff and energy gradient lasts, perhaps millions upon millions of the self-reproducing configuration are produced, some with a minor difference, some with a major difference to the original. Configurations more/less productive, more/less efficient, reproduce at differential rates. Any matter/energy environment so suited continues the process.

So, survive … reproduce … repeat. Complex chemistry in continuous motion.

Life has happened.

Everything that has followed (pre-proto-cell walls, swallowing mitochondria, multi-cellularity, jaws, shells, phalanges, diamond rings, jobs, Hδagen-Dazs Chocolate Ice Cream and postage stamps) are all the result of this original chemistry creating novel configurations of stuff that now seem to have taken on a strong zeitgeist to continue to reproduce to this day.

No purpose. No goal. Just the mindless propensity of chemicals to obey the one true god of the Universe – Physics.

And, before anyone asks, yes, Hδagen-Dazs Chocolate Ice Cream can have a positive effect on reproductive success.


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Stile
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From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 7 of 7 (844898)
12-07-2018 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Tangle
12-06-2018 2:02 PM


Tangle writes:

RAZD writes:

I'd say there are two


I'd say there was one; survive long enough to reproduce.

Ha ha... I also thought there was only one, but I went the other way:

I thought that reproduction wasn't so much a goal, but a tool used by life/species to achieve the goal of survival!

But, really, I agree with AZPaul3:

AZPaul3 writes:

No purpose. No goal. Just the mindless propensity of chemicals to obey the one true god of the Universe – Physics.

I don't really see a "goal" to life any more than I see a "purpose."

And even if one did exist, I wouldn't give 2 shits about following it... since I'm perfectly capable of thinking up a better one anyway.
I imagine 7 better goals before breakfast!


This message is a reply to:
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