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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
So no response. Never anything from you but empty opinions and hate. Yup, here we go.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But He didn't give us the power to stop a mass shooting, etc. If He has the power to stop it, why doesn't He use it? One could argue that He gave us the power and expects us to develop it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Self-loathing is a common fundamentalist trait. I do hate stupidity, yes.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
So He's just tripping over His own feet. That comes from God too of course, the power to do it anyway. Nothing at all happens without Him.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Since you're wrong about practically everything, I'll take that as a compliment. Why on earth do you think such silly crapola is cute?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes it would. Jesus said so. We've been through this before.
If you or I were the only people at an event with money, it would not necessarily mean that we had a responsibility to use it on others. Phat writes:
That makes Him evil.
Besides...the bottom line is that God and only God decides such matters. Phat writes:
That's your favorite copout. But you don't have all of the facts either. You're just making excuses for your pathetic god. Perhaps God has better reasons why NOT to help.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. Let's not. I'm not interested in conclusions drawn from made-up assumptions. Let's stick to reality.
Lets say there was no hell. Never. Lets also assume that there was the hypothetical rebellion in Heaven. Phat writes:
Seriously, don't you see how stupid that sounds? God is such a weakling that He doesn't even rule in Heaven? Come on. Stop wasting my time with that tripe. The point is, what type of a place would such a heaven be like? It would be like anarchy at work, where some folks decided they didn't want to work as a team and sought to make their own hours and rules.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
My "assumption" is a conclusion based on your ideas about hell. The puny "god" that you describe makes no sense. Im going off of your assumptions that hell makes no sense.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It is in the Bible. Do you seriously dispute that?
No punier than a God who needs correction from humans. And which you and jar claim is Biblical. Phat writes:
Why don't bank robbers get real jobs? That's not their agenda.
Why have not the apologists mentioned this anomaly in the stories? Phat writes:
If you have apologetics to defend the lies that apologists tell, why don't you explain?
Oh, that's right...you think they are all in cahoots to sell snake oil. quote: quote: And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes. We've been through this many times. Belief is for when you don't have any objective evidence. If you have objective evidence, there's no place for belief.
Are you saying that objective information by definition will likely not defend a belief? Phat writes:
There's no reframing. Objectivity has always been the default.
This irritates me because you have reframed the issue making objectivity the default value. Phat writes:
Objectivity is objective in nature. Atheism may be the conclusion from the objective facts but not necessarily so. Belief can not be the objective conclusion.
Now, this is not a problem unless objectivity is atheistic or secular humanist in nature, whereupon I would claim bias and propaganda on that end of the spectrum. Phat writes:
That's because you're wrong on both counts. The Bible is the only source for your Jesus, yet you reject what it says about Him - i.e. your theology is a figment of your own imagination (and the imaginations of the apologists that you so admire). And even if you did accept your own source, it's often wrong.
... you seemingly use a tactic of switching back and forth from neutral objectivity to quoting the Bible when it suits you. Phat writes:
I don't "claim" that Jesus told "us". I quote what Jesus told you. If you believe that He existed, you are the one who should be doing what He said.
For instance, you will claim that Jesus told us to do it or ask Jesus. Phat writes:
It may be hard on your head. Not mine.
Don't you realize how hard on the head this flip flop becomes? Phat writes:
I'm not concerned with persuading you about anything. Its almost as if you are more concerned with simply winning a debate than you are for persuading me that your argument is sound.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I've done that many times. I should be getting overtime.
Some of us claim to know. It is your job to request that we prove it. Phat writes:
That's dishonest. Would you let some guy into your house to "read the meter" without ID? You require evidence in every context but one.
I have a higher regard for my belief than I have for the need for evidence. Phat writes:
When you can't explain something, how "obvious" can it really be?
One need not prove the obvious to me. Phat writes:
What right do you have to reject evidence? I conclude that you simply accepted the evidence you found. I have found much of that same evidence and have rejected it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So give us some examples of two lines of evidence that you have decided were in conflict and explain how and why you chose one over the other. Remember that the context here is whether or not God exists. if evidence conflicts with other evidence i reject both temporarily. I need further verofication.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It isn't just a matter of "imputing". It's a matter of pointing out in detail what the thinking problems are - and you being unable to refute the clear conclusion. ... it would be really nice if you'd all stop imputing thinking problems to believers....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Alfred Hitchcock was an omniscient director. John Ford was not. The Deity makes the movie using ad lib actions by the characters in the script. We are co-authoring the movie with the Deitys supervision.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why? Why could He not be less complex? After all, the people who wrote the book were awed by things they didn't understand. What if those things were just done by extraterrestrial technology, a few steps above ours? Even IF those events really happened, why would the writers not exaggerate the powers required?
God, if God exists is more complex than can be described in a book. Phat writes:
Yes. Every second of human history has been humans trying to do that. It's definitely what we want. We're making the improvements that God can't (not omniscient) or won't (evil) make for us. if God could prevent every evil malady that nature throws at our species, the result would be a reality totally unlike the one we now inhabit.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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