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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I suppose you have a point. But don't we continually critically evaluate God..and belief in general...for over ten years at this forum? I guess all I am doing is challenging the idea that man defines God...(even though the evidence shows that we do)
I affirm that I believe that God created us long before we imagined Him. Despite no evidence. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can you know whether it's objective or not if you reject the idea of evidence out of hand? How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God?
ringo writes:
It is not objective. Why do you scoff at evidence in the context of God? Phat writes:
Why wouldn't it be?
Do you think that it has to be evident for everyone or is this even realistic? Phat writes:
Have you even read that story? After all, even the Bible says that many are called and few are chosen.quote:The evidence was very evident (and so was the king's childish response).
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God? Because if that were so, everyone would believe..or more correctly know that God exists. And they don't. In addition, I believe that I already know God, and am testing the God I know versus the God that you describe (knowable through objective evidence). Perhaps I shy away from your idea of what evidence this would be and what conclusion it would lead to. God is not a relative concept. Everyone may well have an idea of who what and how God is, but I believe there is only one final answer. Im assuming that the God I claim to know is the right one. If not, this conversation will deteriorate quickly.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That doesn't answer the question. We agree that there isn't any evidence of God but the proper conclusion is that there is no God, not that there is a top secret God.
ringo writes:
Because if that were so, everyone would believe..or more correctly know that God exists. And they don't. How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
There is no consensus on what a proper response would be. I happen to believe based on experience rather than evidence. Unlike some, I don't simply dismiss the belief based on lack of objective evidence.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you dismiss leprechauns based on lack of objective evidence? Or Zeus? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or six-foot rabbits? Or unicorns? Or Quetzalcoatl? Or hobbits?
Unlike some, I don't simply dismiss the belief based on lack of objective evidence.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
We agree that there isn't any evidence of God but the proper conclusion is that there is no known evidence of God, Fixed it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
RAZD writes: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Only sometimes. The absence of holes in the target is evidence the target was not hit.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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I disagree. Your "correction" is circular: Absence of evidence is evidence of absence of evidence. Not very useful.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... The absence of holes in the target is evidence the target was not hit. But not that bullets/arrows/etc do not exist or were fired at the target. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... Your "correction" is circular: ... Nope. Tautological maybe but not circular. The absence of evidence for "X" does not mean "X" does not exist, just that evidence for it has not been found/discovered (yet).
... Not very useful. Curiously, I find it more useful to be clear on the logic rather than skip a step. That's why I added "known" to the syllogism. You can probably think of a few things that used to be unevidenced but that are now known. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
RAZD writes:
"Known" is redundant. Known evidence is indistinguishable from evidence.
That's why I added "known" to the syllogism.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
so evidence that has not yet been discovered is known?
Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But if the claim was that the target was hit it is evidence that the target was not hit.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3
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quote: Consider the "general human awareness" issue in the stories. Did the Greek Mythological stories say that Zeus & the Titans were observed to walk on Earth by the larger population? Were the Sons of God in Genesis 6 unknown by the world? Should we be aware of these "Fallen Angels" and their offspring (not just "in those days" but "after") or will they simply be laughed at as fiction? (The "New Testament" has "faith" as a major issue, so I suppose that throws out the apparently visible (?) human/gods/titans interface issues among the old myths, and replaces it with issues of blind belief in whatever stories on must hold dear & vital to "the faith" among "the faithful")
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