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Author Topic:   Einstein and a personal God
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5289 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 1 of 37 (88664)
02-25-2004 5:21 PM


In another thread (Message 47) some quotes from Einstein have been juxtaposed with the notion of a personal God. This is supremely ironic, given that Einstein was emphatic in his disbelief in a personal God.
Einstein's religious views are interesting. He has been claimed by the pantheists, because when Einstein spoke of God he generally meant simply the order apparent in the universe itself.
Einstein does not have any special authority as a religious teacher. I do not share all his views; and in fact I think his metaphysical perspectives on a comprehensible universe were a contributing factor to his most famous scientific errors; rejection of quantum machanics and indeterminacy, and resistances to singularities and the instability of large scale spacetime which follow from general relativity. However, I do honour his breadth of thought, his foundational contribitions to modern physics, and his gentle and thoughtful approach to religious belief.
If Einstein is to be cited in the context of discussions of God, and a personal God in particular, then in fairness we need to recognize Einstein's own views, whether they fit well with our own views or not.
An excellent collection entitled "Some of Einstein's Writings on Science and Religion" has been made available on-line, courtesy of Arnold Lesikar. One of the pages is specifically Einstein on a Personal God.
Here are three brief extracts, taken from that page. They are given on the page with a bit of additional context and references.
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
(From a letter written in 1954)
My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance-but for us, not for God.
(From annotations Einstein added to received correspondance, ~1927
The religious feeling engendered by experiencing the logical comprehensibility of profound interrelations is of a somewhat different sort from the feeling that one usually calls religious. It is more a feeling of awe at the scheme that is manifested in the material universe. It does not lead us to take the step of fashioning a god-like being in our own image-a personage who makes demands of us and who takes an interest in us as individuals.
(From a letter written in 1939 or 1940)
Cheers -- Sylas

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tamara, posted 02-26-2004 11:17 AM Sylas has replied
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 11-15-2011 7:41 AM Sylas has not replied
 Message 8 by kbertsche, posted 11-16-2011 3:05 PM Sylas has not replied
 Message 12 by IamJoseph, posted 11-17-2011 9:10 PM Sylas has not replied

  
Sylas
Member (Idle past 5289 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 3 of 37 (88893)
02-26-2004 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tamara
02-26-2004 11:17 AM


Tamara writes:
I think it may be questionable to put blame for Einstein's errors on his spiritual views while not giving credit as well for the hypotheses that panned out... how do you separate it out?
Very good point. I should also acknowledge that Einstein's metaphysical perspective was a significant contributing factor to his greatest achievements.
Einstein's landmark work on general relativity was driven in part by an appreciation of underlying elegance and consistency to the laws of the universe; and it was by assuming certain consistencies that he was able to work out relativity almost from first principles.
In one of the great ironies of twentieth century science, when Einstein received his Nobel prize it was not for relativity; but for work in quantum mechanics and the photoelectric effect. Yet it is in quantum mechanics where Einstein's beliefs led him astray.
Einstein is famous for the remark "God does not play dice" . This statement was a metaphorical one, rejecting the indeterminacy inherent in quantum theory. Yet as it turns out, Einstein was wrong.
Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen.
(Stephen Hawking, in his public lecture Does God Play Dice?)
Einstein said: "Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of nature -- a spirit vastly superior to that of man."
It seems to me that E. may have believed that the universe is permeated by intelligence. Whether he was strictly speaking a pantheist, I am not sure. Maybe our notion of pantheism is closest to what he believed... I never could decipher Spinoza.
I'm no philosopher, and I am content to admire Spinoza from a safe distance. I think Einstein used the word "intelligence" as he used the word "God"; as a metaphor. The trouble with such words is that they are anthropomorphic; they project onto the universe qualities which are associated with persons; will, design, intent. Though some scientists certainly have metaphysics in which such notions play a role, Einstein did not.
Here is an extract which shows how Einstein used the word:
You will hardly find one among the profounder sort of scientific minds without a peculiar religious feeling of his own. But it is different from the religion of the naive man. For the latter God is a being from whose care one hopes to benefit and whose punishment one fears; a sublimation of a feeling similar to that of a child for its father, a being to whom one stands to some extent in a personal relation, however deeply it may be tinged with awe. But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work, in so far as he succeeds in keeping himself from the shackles of selfish desire. It is beyond question closely akin to that which has possessed the religious geniuses of all ages.
(From The World as I see it, by Einstein, quoted in A. Lesikar's pages)
It is interesting to observe Einstein above apparently elevating classical determinism and universal causation to scientific necessities; yet this is precisely the point where he was most in conflict with the trends of twentieth century quantum physics.
I think it would be interesting to have in this forum some further consideration of the religious or metaphysical views of other scientists. I have some material on Paul Davies, which I may clean up and post sometime.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tamara, posted 02-26-2004 11:17 AM Tamara has not replied

  
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