Some help for the TC model

Making sure this doesn't escape.CheersJoe Meert

I just received my GSA Today and the feature article is a rebuttal of the Ryan-Pitman Black Sea 'flood' as an analogue for the Noachian myth. I cannot reproduce the entire article, but I think it has free online access at: http://www.geosociety.org/pubs/gsatoday/CheersJoe Meert

tc, let me know where you are at in your homework.cheersjoe meert

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
--Well lets see, Joz said that I should use SI units, unfortunately it was only a bit helpful in temperature. However I am still concerned with age and age of subducted crust, should it simply be years? or millions of years (written as 6,000,000 or 6?) I haven't been able to apply physics to these types of geophysical equations so I am not all too sharp here, apparently there are no educators at the school that I attend that are qualified or understand the geophysics. And velocity, I don't think that you would use m/s. As well as the logic used to define the variables for Mantle temp and density. I would guess that it would be taken at measurements of reasonable ocean lithospheric crust depths, maybe 3300 kg/m³, a variable I have seen at times in lithospheric dynamics for mantle density (is it an average?). The answers to these questions are of course above me right now, and I would like to get it.

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--Maybe there is a text-book reference explaining the lithospheric dynamics you know which could help me in this topic, as well as other equations for figuring the effects or causes of tectonic plate actions. Doesn't have to be expensive, just reliable information.

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--I also need to develope calculations on how the oceans above spreading boundaries would be reacting to this to obtain a variable for the amount of heat produced. Then I can make a model which was attempted in gene and my discussion here:

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JM: Yes, well keep working and I'll keep bringing this point up. You see, the point I am trying to make is that you didn't think your argument all the way through since a relatively simple calculation results in oceans that are a bit too shallow for a catastrophic flood model. As I mentioned, you have the references and the calculations completed for you on my web page, so it doesn't take a whole lot of work on your part. You just have to justify the model you use and then plug in the numbers.CheersJoe Meert

You must be consistent with your units, that's all. You can use SI, but you don't have to (though the conversions get hairy). As long as everything is scaled properly and the answer is in the correct units, you'll be ok.CheersJoe Meert

C'mon TC. Let's work on a thorough discussion of your model?CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
P_m - Mantle Density - w - Density of water (assuming 4^oC or pressure overcomes the variation due to temperature) = 1000 kg/m^3
A_v - Coefficient of thermal expansion
T_m - Mantle Temperature (as if it were a plume, mantle upwelling) = 1573.15K - 1773.15K
T₀ - Surface Temperature = 373.15K
K - Thermal diffusivity = 1 mm^2 s^(-1)
X - Distance from center = 3000(?) meters
V - Estimated Velocity = 1.5 m (linear)/year, 4.109589 mm/day, 0.1712328 mm/hour, 0.0028538812 mm/min, .0000475646879 mm/sec (.0000000475646879 m/sec)

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--Thought I would have you check before I put myself through more trouble

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JM: TC, You can find what I used for my model on the link provided. I don't want you to duplicate my work, I want you to defend your own model. Seems to me that 1.5 m/year opening for the Atlantic won't quite do it on a 6000 year old earth. In fact, if you attribute the rapid drift to the flood, you not only end up with a shallow ocean, you end up with an extremely small ocean as well using your velocity.CheersJoe Meert

the new link http://gondwanaresearch.com/oceans.htmCheersJoe Meert

Yes, I do. Geodynamics by Turcotte and Schubert is what I teach from. So far all you are doing is duplicating my work which already shows the problem you will face. What you need is a new model in order to get a deep ocean quickly.CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Yes, I do. Geodynamics by Turcotte and Schubert is what I teach from. So far all you are doing is duplicating my work which already shows the problem you will face. What you need is a new model in order to get a deep ocean quickly."
--Thanks for the reference, it looks nice and half.com has a good price for it (within my range) so I might be able to get ahold of it. Also, was this ocean depth we are looking at or basalt thickness or something along that line, I'm skimming through your article but can't seem to find this pinpoint.

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JM: Well, the title of the page is a good hint!Cheers
Joe Meert

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--BTW did baumgardner do any profiling on sea-floor topography such as you have, and if so what is wrong with his calculations, or did he not address it?

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JM: As far as I know, he did not deal with it. He was more worried about subduction and simply said the Atlantic ocean opened as a result of subduction elsewhere. It's one of many problems with Baugardner's model. It's also what happens when your religion leads you astray!CheersJoe Meert

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--I don't think he addresses sea-floor topography on a large or appropriate scale though.

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JM: He doesn't address the relevant question at all.CheersJoe Meert

So TC here is something that is best explained in a uniformitarian sense and does not fit the flood model.CheersJoe Meert

Since you've gone on a posting rampage to other topics, I wanted to make sure this one did not drift too far off the page.CheersJoe Meert

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Since you've gone on a posting rampage to other topics, I wanted to make sure this one did not drift too far off the page."
--This thread isn't going anywhere, I had ordered the text on Geodynamics a couple days ago, its arival date is somewhere in the vicinity of the 28 of this month, though the given estimated dates of dilivery go all the way toward mid June. Books I had ordered from Half.com people have usually came quite quick though. So it should be here soon.

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Since everyone seems to be in the bumping mood, why not?