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Author Topic:   Saints in Matthew 27:52
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 42 (640594)
11-09-2011 9:23 AM


Who are the 'saints' in Matthew 27:52?
quote:
Matthew 27:52 (NRSV):
The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
Was this a common way to reference ancestral Jewish religious figures?
We know it is used frequently in the New Testament to reference followers of Jesus and the Christian movement.
Jon

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 11-10-2011 3:22 PM Jon has replied
 Message 5 by ICANT, posted 11-10-2011 10:27 PM Jon has replied
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 11-10-2011 10:31 PM Jon has replied
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-11-2011 9:56 AM Jon has replied
 Message 20 by GDR, posted 11-11-2011 5:02 PM Jon has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 42 (640595)
11-10-2011 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-09-2011 9:23 AM


Needs Position
You've provided the question, now we need your position on the issue.
Thanks
AdminPD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-09-2011 9:23 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 11-10-2011 3:43 PM AdminPD has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 42 (640596)
11-10-2011 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
11-10-2011 3:22 PM


Re: Needs Position
I don't have a position on the issue. This is an honest question.
The most I can do is speculate that the 'saints' is an anachronistic reference to deceased Christians from the time period of the author instead of the time of the crucifixion.
At least that is how the word 'saint' is used everywhere else in the (English) NT: to reference Christians.
But I am not certain and I want to know if anyone else has another take on what it could mean, particularly Biblical inerrantist who would not take well to the notion of an anachronistic reference in the gospel.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 11-10-2011 3:22 PM AdminPD has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 42 (640598)
11-10-2011 9:23 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Saints in Matthew 27:52 thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5 of 42 (640608)
11-10-2011 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-09-2011 9:23 AM


Saints
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
Who are the 'saints' in Matthew 27:52?
All the people in Abraham's bosom where the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 saw Lazarus.
They all came forth out of the graves after Jesus resurrection.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-09-2011 9:23 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 11-11-2011 3:09 AM ICANT has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 42 (640609)
11-10-2011 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-09-2011 9:23 AM


Who Are Saints?
Jon writes:
Who are the 'saints' in Matthew 27:52?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 27:52 (NRSV):The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was this a common way to reference ancestral Jewish religious figures?
We know it is used frequently in the New Testament to reference followers of Jesus and the Christian movement.
There are numerous NT scriptures which allude to the term saint.. This site has a partial listing of them. It is a good commentary on the verses.
quote:
Question: "What are Christian saints according to the Bible?"
Answer: The word saint comes from the Greek word hagios, which means consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." It is almost always used in the plural, saints. "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem" (Acts 9:13). "Now as Peter was traveling through all those regions, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda" (Acts 9:32). "And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons (Acts 26:10). There is only one instance of the singular use, and that is "Greet every saint in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:21). In Scripture there are 67 uses of the plural saints compared to only one use of the singular word saint. Even in that one instance, a plurality of saints is in view: every saint (Philippians 4:21).
The idea of the word saints is a group of people set apart for the Lord and His kingdom. There are three references referring to godly character of saints: "that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints " (Romans 16:2). "For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:12). "But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints" (Ephesians 5:3).
Therefore, scripturally speaking, the saints are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saintsand at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy The words sanctified and holy come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated saints. Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints.
How does the Roman Catholic understanding of saints compare with the biblical teaching? Not very well. In Roman Catholic theology, the saints are in heaven. In the Bible, the saints are on earth. In Roman Catholic teaching, a person does not become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Roman Catholic practice, the saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances, worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship, and pray to God alone.
If you've sincerely received Jesus as savior and lord, you qualify as St Jon.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-09-2011 9:23 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 11-11-2011 3:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 42 (640623)
11-11-2011 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
11-10-2011 10:31 PM


Re: Who Are Saints?
There are numerous NT scriptures which allude to the term saint.. This site has a partial listing of them. It is a good commentary on the verses.
quote:
Question: "What are Christian saints according to the Bible?"
Answer: The word saint comes from the Greek word hagios, which means consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." It is almost always used in the plural, saints. "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem" (Acts 9:13). "Now as Peter was traveling through all those regions, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda" (Acts 9:32). "And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons (Acts 26:10). There is only one instance of the singular use, and that is "Greet every saint in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:21). In Scripture there are 67 uses of the plural saints compared to only one use of the singular word saint. Even in that one instance, a plurality of saints is in view: every saint (Philippians 4:21).
The idea of the word saints is a group of people set apart for the Lord and His kingdom. There are three references referring to godly character of saints: "that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints " (Romans 16:2). "For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:12). "But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints" (Ephesians 5:3).
Therefore, scripturally speaking, the saints are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saintsand at the same time are called to be saints. First Corinthians 1:2 states it clearly: To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy The words sanctified and holy come from the same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated saints. Christians are saints by virtue of their connection with Jesus Christ. Christians are called to be saints, to increasingly allow their daily life to more closely match their position in Christ. This is the biblical description and calling of the saints.
How does the Roman Catholic understanding of saints compare with the biblical teaching? Not very well. In Roman Catholic theology, the saints are in heaven. In the Bible, the saints are on earth. In Roman Catholic teaching, a person does not become a saint unless he/she is beatified or canonized by the Pope or prominent bishop. In the Bible, everyone who has received Jesus Christ by faith is a saint. In Roman Catholic practice, the saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances, worshipped. In the Bible, saints are called to revere, worship, and pray to God alone.
If you've sincerely received Jesus as savior and lord, you qualify as St Jon.
So you take it as a reference to Christians, thenFollowers of Jesus?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 11-10-2011 10:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 42 (640624)
11-11-2011 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by ICANT
11-10-2011 10:27 PM


Re: Saints
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
Who are the 'saints' in Matthew 27:52?
All the people in Abraham's bosom where the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 saw Lazarus.
They all came forth out of the graves after Jesus resurrection.
God Bless,
I don't have any idea what this means. Would you care to clarify?
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ICANT, posted 11-10-2011 10:27 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ICANT, posted 11-11-2011 7:57 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 10 by jar, posted 11-11-2011 8:50 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 11-11-2011 11:00 AM Jon has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 9 of 42 (640636)
11-11-2011 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
11-11-2011 3:09 AM


Re: Saints
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
I don't have any idea what this means. Would you care to clarify?
Sorry, I thought you was a student of the Bible.
Everyone who had met God's requirements from the mankind that was created in the image/likeness of God until the resurrection of Jesus who had died was in Abraham's bosom. Including the thief on the cross.
quote:
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
When Jesus was resurrected this paradise was emptied.
quote:
Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Paul says when Jesus ascended on high (went back to the Father's side) He led those in captavity with Him and gave them gifts.
So the simple answer to your question is:
All the OT saints who were in paradise where Jesus met the thief on the cross after the physical body died was set free at Jesus resurrection.
Those were the saints Matthew was writing about in 27:52.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 11-11-2011 3:09 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-11-2011 9:51 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 13 by Coragyps, posted 11-11-2011 10:10 AM ICANT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 42 (640640)
11-11-2011 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
11-11-2011 3:09 AM


Re: Saints
The Matthew account is filled with inconsistencies and unanswered questions.
Honestly, I don't think anyone really has a clue what the term "saints" means in that account.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 11-11-2011 3:09 AM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 42 (640644)
11-11-2011 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by ICANT
11-11-2011 7:57 AM


Re: Saints
ICANT writes:
Paul says when Jesus ascended on high (went back to the Father's side) He led those in captavity with Him and gave them gifts.
Who initially put them into captivity?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ICANT, posted 11-11-2011 7:57 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ICANT, posted 11-11-2011 12:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 313 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 12 of 42 (640645)
11-11-2011 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-09-2011 9:23 AM


Who are the 'saints' in Matthew 27:52?
Well, "saint" is a translation of ἅγιος , meaning "holy one". So presumably it means pious Jews who lived B.C.
Was this a common way to reference ancestral Jewish religious figures?
If you think about it, up until that time no-one had referenced Jewish ancestral figures in Greek all that much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-09-2011 9:23 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Jon, posted 11-11-2011 12:53 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 13 of 42 (640646)
11-11-2011 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by ICANT
11-11-2011 7:57 AM


Re: Saints
All the OT saints who were in paradise where Jesus met the thief on the cross after the physical body died was set free at Jesus resurrection.
Set free. From paradise.
WTF??
Another reason not to subscribe to Christian myths.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ICANT, posted 11-11-2011 7:57 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 14 of 42 (640648)
11-11-2011 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
11-11-2011 3:09 AM


Re: Saints
Page Not Found | Ligonier Ministries
RC has a fairly decent explanation.
According to this biblical doctrine, those who were chosen by the Father, atoned for by the Son, and regenerated by the Spirit will never fall away.
Thats assuming you ascribe to this particular Theology, of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 11-11-2011 3:09 AM Jon has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 15 of 42 (640654)
11-11-2011 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
11-11-2011 9:51 AM


Re: Saints
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
Who initially put them into captivity?
They were trapped in Paradise as that was the resting place of the saints until Jesus came, died, and was resurrected from the grave.
But when He was resurrected then they could receive a new body like He had and enter heaven with Him.
Why did Paul use the words, captivity captive in Ephesians 4:8 escapes me. The only thing I can figure is he was used to being in a holding cell and was equating Paradise with Abraham with the cells he had been in, because the people were not in heaven proper.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-11-2011 9:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Pollux, posted 11-17-2011 7:11 PM ICANT has replied

  
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