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Author Topic:   ancient atmosphere accounts for argon
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 6 (186443)
02-18-2005 2:19 AM


The atmosphere in the ancient world was different, most likely, as some scientists have indicated. (this thread may go in coffee house, or the science or faith, etc, because I would make reference to a pre flood atmosphere). I would propose that maybe there was a lot of argon in that atmosphere. The evidence for which is the amount of the gas in ancient rock, particualily old lava. These days, when lava say, forms an island, or formation, we can see it has less argon. The gas is assumed (?) to have formed from a long process, however, because we know it does break down eventually to this very gas. But if it was deposited by a pre flood atmosphere rich in argon, or, if a quick atmosphere change at the flood time resulted in a lot being introduced quickly, would this not account for it!?
Therefore, rather than age, it is only an indicator of post, or pre (or mid) flood gas entering things like lava.
Here is a few quotes on the topic
"(Ar), chemical element, inert gas of Group 0 (noble gases) of the periodic table, terrestrially the most abundant and industrially the most frequently used of the noble gases. Colourless, odourless, and tasteless, argon gas was isolated (1894) from air by the British scientists Lord Rayleigh and Sir William Ramsay. Henry Cavendish, while investigating atmospheric nitrogen ("phlogisticated air"), had concluded in 1785 that not more than 1/120 part of air might be some inert constituent. His work was forgotten until Lord Rayleigh, more than a century later, found that nitrogen prepared by removing oxygen from air is always about 0.5 percent more dense than nitrogen derived from chemical sources such as ammonia. The heavier gas remaining after both oxygen and nitrogen had been removed from air was the first of the noble gases to be discovered on Earth and was named argon because of its chemical inertness. (Helium had been spectroscopically detected in the Sun in 1868.)
Argon constitutes 1.3 percent of the atmosphere by weight and 0.94 percent by volume and is found occluded in rocks. A major portion of terrestrial argon has been produced, since the Earth's formation, in potassium-containing minerals by decay of the rare, naturally radioactive isotope potassium-40. The gas slowly leaks into the atmosphere from the rocks in which it is still
being formed. The production of argon-40 from potassium-40 decay is utilized as a means of determining the Earth's age (potassium-argon dating). "
Page not found – CFC
So many ideas, so little time!

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 Message 2 by AdminJar, posted 02-18-2005 10:01 AM simple has replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 6 (186490)
02-18-2005 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
02-18-2005 2:19 AM


For this to be promoted you will have to add some supporting evidence that the hypothesized "Pre-Flood atmosphere" contained more argon and some support for the assertion that argon enters lava by being absorbed from the atmosphere in the first place.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 02-18-2005 2:19 AM simple has replied

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 Message 3 by simple, posted 02-18-2005 8:31 PM AdminJar has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 6 (186641)
02-18-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminJar
02-18-2005 10:01 AM


mice survive breathing 40% argon
"Because it is present within the atmosphere, every rock and mineral will have some quantity of Argon" (see below for link)
So we know it gets in. As for pre flood atmosphere, so far we have determined an ancient atmosphere was different. We all know you consider no proof valid so far for any flood, let alone pre flood atmosphere. So let's not say give proof for the flood up front, or we can't discuss it.
We know life can do well breathing a different mixture, such as the 40 % argon in this experiment. We also have indications the atmosphere on earth was different before.
"They placed the amber inside a vacuum chamber, then cracked it to let the ancient air escape. They found that it was 32% oxygen, compared with 21% in the modern atmosphere. "
Page not found | TIME
http://www.highmars.org/niac/niac02.html
"We've been experimenting with mice and crickets in sealed environments while pumping through a breathing mixture of 40% argon, 40% nitrogen and 20% oxygen. The purpose of these experiments is to see whether or not humans can survive unaffected when breathing such mixtures."
Since we have less oxygen now, if nitrogen and argon came down from a changing atmosphere, it seems this would also be an effect it could have, Here is an article on how these gases are used to reduce oxygen, to reduce fire risk!
Also it is by subtracting the amount of argon in TODAY'S atmosphere, assumptions are made
"Argon, a noble gas, constitutes approximately 0.1-5% of the Earth's present day atmosphere. Because it is present within the atmosphere, every rock and mineral will have some quantity of Argon. Argon can mobilized into or out of a rock or mineral through alteration and thermal processes. Like Potassium, Argon cannot be significantly fractionated in nature. However, 40Ar is the decay product of 40K and therefore will increase in quantity over time. The quantity of 40Ar produced in a rock or mineral over time can be determined by substracting the amount known to be contained in the atmosphere. "
http://www.ees.nmt.edu/...abs/Argon_Lab/Methods/Methods.html
This message has been edited by simple, 02-18-2005 20:32 AM
This message has been edited by simple, 02-18-2005 20:34 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminJar, posted 02-18-2005 10:01 AM AdminJar has replied

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 Message 4 by AdminJar, posted 02-18-2005 8:48 PM simple has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 6 (186644)
02-18-2005 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by simple
02-18-2005 8:31 PM


Re: mice survive breathing 40% argon
We all know you consider no proof valid so far for any flood, let alone pre flood atmosphere. So let's not say give proof for the flood up front, or we can't discuss it.
No one has asked you for proof of either the flood or the early atmosphere. Instead what you've been asked is to supply evidence to support your WAGs. So far you have NEVER provided any evidence to support ANY of your assertions.
I'm afraid I can't promote this based on what you've provided so far. None of the links you supplied had any mention of Argon being at a higher level in the past.
Perhaps some other Admin may consider this and promote it.

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 Message 5 by AdminNosy, posted 02-18-2005 9:24 PM AdminJar has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 5 of 6 (186652)
02-18-2005 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminJar
02-18-2005 8:48 PM


Not this admin
Perhaps some other Admin may consider this and promote it.
As you note there has never been any support for any assertion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminJar, posted 02-18-2005 8:48 PM AdminJar has not replied

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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 6 (186694)
02-19-2005 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by AdminNosy
02-18-2005 9:24 PM


results evident?
The early big bang is not known , but much is speculated upon because we think we see the results. Same with the early evolutionary lifeform, that is theorized. The ancient atmosphere, and oceans are 'thought' to have been formed in a certain way by long age processes. We can't 'prove' what the atmosphere was like a 'billion'
years ago.
WE can't prove a larger amount of argon in existance as God created the earth, or in the early atmosphere, let alone some flood atmosphere. However, if we assume a starting point (like we assume a starting point for the early big bang)with more argon, we then have known science telling us it would have gotten into rocks, and things. If creation happened at all, it would have resulted in what we now see. My thread suggestion merely was meant to explore the known evidence of ancient atmosphere, argon properties, and how it would fit quite well with the scientific evidence. Oh, by the way, as a sidebar, if anyone read my thread about the cooler center of earth, it seems moleculer liquid metallic hydrogen may fit the bill!?

This message is a reply to:
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