EvC Forum: Do We Live in an Infinite Universe?

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Topic: Do We Live in an Infinite Universe?

GDR

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From: Sidney, BC, Canada

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Message 1 of 5 (334037)
07-21-2006 2:52 PM

cavediver writes:

In the standard Big Bang, close to the Big Bang itself, time does not behave in the way to which we are accustomed, and at T=0, the only direction is forward in time. There is no backwards in time, for there to have been a before.

The universe is four dimensional and if God created the universe (and I believe he did) then he created all four dimensions as well. This means the whole universe came into existence, but not at any particular point in our time. The Big Bang, the Big Crunch, now, yesterday and next week, are all parts of that creation. If the universe is infinite in extent (spatially and/or temporally), then exactly the same idea holds. God brings the whole universe into being...

GDR writes:

I hate to get involved in a discussion where the other posters actually know what they're talking about, but I have some questions.

In physical terms, is infinity just a mathematical concept or do you see it as literally true.

If time in an infinite universe is depicted as a circle would it be correct to say that the period between the BB and the BC, (or however else time as we know it ends), could be depicted as a tear drop attached to the circle so that time flows out of the large circle travels around the tear drop and then flows back into the large (infinite) circle again?

I keep reading about multiple universes. I think of THE universe as being everything that is our multi-glactic system and the space in between. How do you define a universe? When Barbour talks about each moment of time being an eternal universe I can't imagine what that might look like.

If we live in an infinite universe would it be reasonable to think that what existed at T=0 was infinite energy?

Can you help?

cavediver writes:

Of course, it's what I do

But perhaps a bit OT here, so can you open a thread in BB & Cosm and we can chat there. There are all sorts of interesting philosophical considerations concerning living in an infinte universe, so it could get interesting if people decide to dive in...

Cavediver suggested Big Bang and Cosmolgy but I'm also interested in what implications an infinite universe would have to us theologically. I'll leave it to you. I'm content with whatever you decide.

Thanks
Greg

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

GDR

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From: Sidney, BC, Canada

Joined: 05-22-2005

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Message 2 of 5 (334487)
07-23-2006 10:24 AM

I suspect by the fact that know one picked this up that I did a poor job of presenting this by just copying the previous posts so I'll try again.

Cavediver says that we may very well be living in an infinite universe. What does that mean. First off I think that we need to define our terms.

http://EvC Forum: Kalam Cosmological argument -->EvC Forum: Kalam Cosmological argument

What is the definition of a universe?

I have always thought of it as simply is everything that constitutes all of the mass and energy in our inter-galactic system. However when we start to talk about multi-universes I'm not so sure.

What does infinity actually mean in this context?

Is it just a mathematical solution to the question and if not then what does inifinity look like in terms of the Big Bang? Is there going to be a Big Crunch? Does it allow for a T=0? I would imagine that an infinite universe has no boundaries in either time or distance, but then again it seems that many physicists divide time up into planck length chunks of time. If time is a series of nows is that compatible with a universe that is infinite in distance?

I'm just looking for some description that a lay person can get their head around.

If we live in an infinite universe would it be reasonable to think that what existed at T=0 was infinite energy?

It seems to me that if we live in an infinite universe then I can't see how the singularity could have been finite.

Edited by GDR, : As per admin NWR.

Replies to this message:
	Message 3 by AdminNWR, posted 07-23-2006 10:50 AM	GDR has replied
	Message 5 by AdminNWR, posted 07-23-2006 11:58 AM	GDR has not replied

AdminNWR

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Message 3 of 5 (334491)
07-23-2006 10:50 AM

Reply to: Message 2 by GDR
07-23-2006 10:24 AM

I suspect by the fact that know one picked this up that I did a poor job of presenting this by just copying the previous posts so I'll try again.

The admins are probably all hoping that somebody else will handle it.

The OP is almost entirely quotes. Message 2 is a significant improvement.

You begin "Cavediver says that ...". It would be best to provide a link to the particular message, so that people can also see the context. I assume it is from Kalam Cosmological argument.

What does infinity actually mean in this context?

A good question. Mathematically, any continuum is infinite, even if bounded. If time is a continuum, that is as much a problem for what was being argued in Kalam Cosmological argument as is a cosmos that is eternal. Can you clarify whether "infinite universe" is intended to contrast to a universe with discrete (quantized) time? Or are you considering only an unbounded universe (no upper or lower bound in time (and perhaps distance).

Also you use BB and BC. Some readers might not know what these stand for (particularly BC). Perhaps it would be best to use the full terminology in your opening post.

Either write a new candidate OP as a reply to this. Or edit your Message 2, and then reply to this message so we know when you have finished the editing. Admins can then start a new thread, using your preferred message as the OP

This message is a reply to:
	Message 2 by GDR, posted 07-23-2006 10:24 AM		GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 4 by GDR, posted 07-23-2006 11:19 AM		AdminNWR has not replied

GDR

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Posts: 6202

From: Sidney, BC, Canada

Joined: 05-22-2005

Member Rating: 2.3

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Message 4 of 5 (334495)
07-23-2006 11:19 AM

Reply to: Message 3 by AdminNWR
07-23-2006 10:50 AM

I edited the post and hope that is now satisfactory. I'm gone for a few hours now so won't be able to reply for a while.
Thanks for the help.

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AdminNWR

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Message 5 of 5 (334505)
07-23-2006 11:58 AM

Reply to: Message 2 by GDR
07-23-2006 10:24 AM

Message 2 promoted to Do We Live in an Infinite Universe?. This copy of the thread is closed.

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