what is feminism?

Actually, I've never noticed evo-psych proponents to limit themselves to chimps. Any mammal or any vertebrate will do as long as they exhibit some behavior that is reasonably close to some North American cultural norm.

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I've done everything the Bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! -- Ned Flanders

where is your proof that patriarchy ensured the survival of any species?

Ok, it was a premise. It could have been a false one. But it had a point. It can still be a part of the discussion. Because bonobos are chimps, right? A sub-species?If they evolved past patriachy, into matriarchy, then that doesn't suggest that our ancestor was NOT patriarchal, does it?

I don't have the time right now to delve into a whole new sub-topic.Are you saying that it plays no role? From Message 250

quote:

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I was trying to imply that the idea that men should run things does not come from just them having a penis.

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I don't know enough about evo-psych to know if I am a proponent or not (not saying that you said I am, I'm just sayin') Heh, and I was going to, jokingly, say: "Hell, even dogs are patriarchal."

matriarchy worked really well for those that used it.of course, many of them were wiped out by other people... or are you suggesting that people who get murdered for having different social, religious, or political structures are just weaker and this demonstrates the failure of their various characteristics?

thus is my discussion about hierarchy rather than patriarchy being the problem. of course good luck running a world without some form of hierarchy.

Again. Your "evolutionary psychological" assumptions are on shaky ground. Sexism and racism were somehow necessary to the evolutionary success of Homo sapiens? I'd like you to support that contention with a link or two. http://www.umass.edu/preferen/gintis/buller.pdf

and that totally negates their contribution to human knowledge. you're so much smarter than us useless academics. we should all be shot.

Yowza. Triple! What is with the system here at MU's library?Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

Double post.Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

Nope. Species.Wiki: So. The question remains. Why should chimps "count" more than bonobos? One is matriarchal, one is patriarchal, both are Pan. If anything, that would suggest there's a 50/50 chance for patriarchy.

who is to say that ordinary chimps didn't evolve into patriarchy and we happened to as well? lots of animals coincidentally evolved to the same result, like wings and eyeballs.

Don't brush me off.
Male dominance is on topic (as it relates to feminism).
Answer the question.Edited by molbiogirl, : typo

Well since you still haven't proven that patriarchy is biological I don't see how this assertion means anything.We may have culturally evolved patriarchy, but not "as a species." There are matriarchal and egalitarian societies all over the world. You cannot, however, prove that it was the only way to go. It cannot be proven since history has already happened. Took ya long enough. How so? Do you mean that all of our cities would crumble to dust and all of our culture would just magically disappear?"Cracking the foundation" and exposing the faulty, unjust presmises our society has depended on is the point, tho. Exposing faulty wiring in a building does not mean that the whole damn building has to be demolished. It just means that new wiring needs to be installed. Oh that makes things so much clearer! ::What would be acceptable to you to keep around for awhile so that your mythical foundation of society doesn't come crashing down around you?And how is over 200 years of feminist activism slowly bringing about change (with a few rapid growth spurts) equivalent to "flipping a switch?"What do you think would happen?I think the only thing at risk of coming crashing down is the assumption of male superiority and that is what has had men up in arms all this time. Yes, yes, you've said that several times, but HOW were they important? How was the oppression of women and racial minorities (especially in the institution of slavery) important for "our societies and cultures" and what exactly is this mysterious "balance?" Please be specific.And how carefully should they be removed? What would happen if they just disappeared overnight?

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London