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Author Topic:   Francis Collins and Theistic Evolution (Re: the book "The Language of God")
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2923 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 34 of 46 (323232)
06-19-2006 11:27 AM


The way God intervenes.
The only way God intervenes in history is through the free will actions of humans. Without humans there is no intervention. Read Matthew 25. Natural selection is not intervention, it is natural selection according to the rules/laws of nature.

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by GDR, posted 06-19-2006 1:25 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2923 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 36 of 46 (323284)
06-19-2006 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by GDR
06-19-2006 1:25 PM


Re: The way God intervenes.
I just go back to my question, which is how does it devalue the creative process by God's intervening in the process as it evolved.
It is not a question of which has more "value". It is a question of which there is more evidence for and which is the most "parsimonius" explanation. There is little, if any, evidence for an interventionist God in terms of the natural order of things. All of the physical and biological attributes of the universe can be explained following the laws of the physical and natural sciences. There is plenty of evidence for an interventionist God through humans in human history, however. Think of what happens if there is no Abraham Lincoln, or FDR, for example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by GDR, posted 06-19-2006 1:25 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by GDR, posted 06-19-2006 2:00 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2923 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 38 of 46 (323340)
06-19-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by GDR
06-19-2006 2:00 PM


Re: The way God intervenes.
I'm just suggesting that when genetic mutations occur there may have been divine influence or there might not have been.
But why invoke an intervention into the process of evolution when it is totally unnecessary? We know mutations occur spontaneously. There is no need to invoke God. It is not just Science that values parsimony. Common sense, logic and the judicial process does as well. Where does the evidence lead? If you are going to invoke an extraordinary explanation (and who could argue that God did it isn't extraordinary?) then you need some extraordinary evidence. The fact that a mutation occured is not extraordinary. Hence no need for God.
IMO there is no need for a virgin birth or a bodily resurrection either if that is what you mean by God intervening 2000 years ago. Why have a virgin give birth when there is a much more tried and true method of doing that and why bring the actual body of Jesus back to life when his spirit is what is needed to change the lives of people? We don't need the body of Jesus to be alive anymore than we need the body of Thomas Jefforson to be alive to understand the spirit of his words, "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."
Another way of looking at this - if one accepts the fact that Jesus was fully human he couldn't have been born of a virgin or had a bodily resurrection after he died because that isn't the way it works when one is human. However we can follow Jesus and do as he did because he WAS fully human. That is the real good news. If he had not been fully human we would have no hope of being like him.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2923 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 42 of 46 (323605)
06-19-2006 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
06-19-2006 8:59 PM


Re: well, now we know, GOD is just human.
Eve got a pass, can't catch sin from her, no way.
Maybe we should have a "genetics of the virgin birth proposition" discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 06-19-2006 8:59 PM jar has not replied

  
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