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Life! What a concept!

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Topic: Life! What a concept!

nwr

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From: Geneva, Illinois

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Message 2 of 39 (448710)
01-14-2008 10:42 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by molbiogirl
01-14-2008 9:49 PM

It's always fun ...

... to see a bunch of famous people off on a wild goose chase.

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 1 by molbiogirl, posted 01-14-2008 9:49 PM		molbiogirl has replied

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	Message 3 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 12:21 AM		nwr has replied

nwr

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From: Geneva, Illinois

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Message 4 of 39 (448723)
01-15-2008 12:34 AM

Reply to: Message 3 by molbiogirl
01-15-2008 12:21 AM

Re: It's always fun ...

Freeman Dyson said "We're all equally ignorant, as far as I can see. That's why somebody like me can pretend to be an expert." That's an example of what makes it sound like a wild goose chase.

And then your OP include this quote: "We are witnessing a point in which the empirical has intersected with the epistemological". Since epistemology is way off track (IMO), I don't find that encouraging.

As for your quote in Message 3, I'm not an expert in biology. But it sounds more like wishful thinking than anything else. I'm reminded of Turing's 1950 prediction that successful AI was just around the corner.

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 3 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 12:21 AM		molbiogirl has replied

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	Message 5 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 12:48 AM		nwr has replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 6 of 39 (448729)
01-15-2008 1:00 AM

Reply to: Message 5 by molbiogirl
01-15-2008 12:48 AM

Re: It's always fun ...

It's not a question of Moore's law.

Turing believed that thought was logic, and thus could be digitally implemented. I believe that to be a faulty assumption.

In this discussion there appears to be an assumption that life is digital. I likewise believe that to be a faulty assumption.

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 5 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 12:48 AM		molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 7 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 1:13 AM	nwr has replied
	Message 16 by Fosdick, posted 01-15-2008 11:29 AM	nwr has replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 9 of 39 (448743)
01-15-2008 1:59 AM

Reply to: Message 7 by molbiogirl
01-15-2008 1:13 AM

Re: It's always fun ...

And if you define life as "the genome", which Seth does, then life most certainly is digital.

I don't define life as the genome. I don't define thought/intelligence as logic. I suspect that we are seeing two different versions of the same mistake.

Life generates intelligence/thought. If life is digital, it would follow that intelligence is digital. Since I am quite certain that intelligence is not digital, it would seem to follow that life also is not digital.

You don't seem to have read the .pdf.

I'll grant that I have not yet finished it.

You seem to be jumping to conclusions.

As long as they are the right conclusions, then no harm done

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 7 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 1:13 AM		molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 10 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 2:07 AM		nwr has replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 14 of 39 (448780)
01-15-2008 8:42 AM

Reply to: Message 10 by molbiogirl
01-15-2008 2:07 AM

Re: It's always fun ...

In fact, having read Seth's entire contribution to this conversation, at no point does he define life.

That omission is telling us something

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 10 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 2:07 AM		molbiogirl has replied

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	Message 20 by molbiogirl, posted 01-15-2008 2:46 PM		nwr has seen this message but not replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

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Message 17 of 39 (448824)
01-15-2008 12:12 PM

Reply to: Message 16 by Fosdick
01-15-2008 11:29 AM

Re: Digital or what?

Only life has generations, in the sense in which you are using it.

I distinguish between "uses digital" and "is digital". It is the latter that I question.

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 16 by Fosdick, posted 01-15-2008 11:29 AM		Fosdick has replied

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	Message 18 by Fosdick, posted 01-15-2008 12:32 PM		nwr has replied

nwr

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Posts: 6412

From: Geneva, Illinois

Joined: 08-08-2005

Member Rating: 5.3

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Message 19 of 39 (448837)
01-15-2008 12:39 PM

Reply to: Message 18 by Fosdick
01-15-2008 12:32 PM

Re: Digital or what?

Fertilization is seen in sexual reproduction, but not in asexual reproduction. I don't see fertilization as characterizing life.

Let's end the political smears

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	Message 18 by Fosdick, posted 01-15-2008 12:32 PM		Fosdick has not replied

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