Focus on the Family Will Keep your Kid from Being Gay

That's not what the argument would be. People can be fat because of the actions they take (putting more calories in their bodies than they burn), and homosexuals can be homosexual because of the actions that they take.But that doesn't mean we need to legalize Fat marriage.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Where? Quote me. If not, retract your bigoted statement.(1) Why try to make a valid argument if you're just going to ignore me?
I'm here aren't I?(2) I've given up on being the understanding/tolerant liberal. In other words, screw you.Translation: I have no argument so I'll insult you.(3) I'll take what I said in 2 back. Actually, screw you again.
(4) I'm ashamed to be the same species as you.
(5) You're pretty dense, you know that?
Don't care...don't care...don't care... You would be 100% correct if homosexuality were a racial trait, but it isn't. It's a choice. Until you get some genetic science to back you, you will lose this argument as many times as you'd like to post about it. Don't hurt yourself with your insults.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

You actually don't know that this science exists? It is understandable that you might be confused in such a state of ignorance.Why don't you do a bit of reseach before making such statements?

Provide it. So far nobody has done so.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

I don't think I made my position clear enough. I was trying to agree that yes people do take that position (as both Tal and GAWs link showed), and so would back Tal in making his claim... which you have amplified with evidence.I was then backing away to say that even if this is true, I would not support that idea. I personally do not believe genetic inheritance should make something more worthy of protection. Then I tried to appeal to the origins of our rights and freedoms, which were made in an age that did not operate under our preconceptions.Not to mention trying to get the fat people on my side.I suppose I could be refuted if people posted evidence that in the past (around the origin of our nation) people did use inherited characteristics as argument for greater protection of those traits/habits. Then I'd be left saying "well it shouldn't be that way, right all you fat people?"

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

And exactly what evidence do you have to support this claim Tal? You do realize that if a gay person chooses to live a lie and have sex with members of the opposite sex, that they're still gay right...you do understand this...correct? They're not magically un-gay. So provide evidence that homosexuality is a choice made by the individual or stop claiming victory. So you are saying that because science has not yet figured out why some people are gay and some other are not, that you win the argument? How pathetic.ABE:In an earlier thread, I posted this which does seem to suggest a genetic compnent to homosexuality Tal.This message has been edited by FliesOnly, 08-22-2005 03:50 PM

You will want to think about this very carefully. If the above statement is true, and you hold that gay is like fat, then you have either argued for the possibility of denying fat people the right to marry, or giving gays the right to marry.Again, people are not going to be happy.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

From: WordPress › ErrorBailey and Pillard (1991): occurrence of homosexuality among brothers* 52% of identical (monozygotic) twins of homosexual men were likewise homosexual
* 22% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual
* 11% of adoptive brothers of homosexual men were likewise homosexualJ.M. Bailey and R.C. Pillard, A genetic study of male sexual orientation, Archives of General Psychiatry, vol. 48:1089-1096, December 1991.
Bailey and Pillard (1993): occurrence of homosexuality among sisters* 48% of identical (monozygotic) twins of homosexual women were likewise homosexual (lesbian)
* 16% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual
* 6% of adoptive sisters of homosexual women were likewise homosexualAs with all such complex things genes are not the whole answer. The nature of this study means that others would be needed to be sure the numbers are right. However, this is evidence that genetics is significantly involved.Why couldn't you find this? Again, before making the kinds of statements you make you would do well to do some research. Of course, I notice that you are still avoiding the science threads on the various sciences that you think are wrong so it isn't suprising that you wish to hold on to as many of your unfounded opinions as you can.ABE
From "Genome" by M. Ridley page 117"There is no room for doubt that homosexuality is highly heritable.""Homosexuality seemed to run in the female line. If a man was gay, the most likely other member of the previous generation to be gay was not his father but his mother's brother."(as an aside it seems to me that there would be some reduced chance of his father being gay for what might be obvious reasons)...X128, the tip of the long arm of the (X) chromosome. Gay men shared the same version of this marker seventy-five per cent of the time; straight men shared a different version of the marker seventy-five percent of the time. Statistically, that ruled out coincidence with ninty-nine per cent confidence....The problem for a gene for sexual orientation is that the version that causes homosexuality would quite quickly become extinct. ... Trivers argued that, because an X chromosome spends twice as much time in women as it does in men, a sexually antagoinist gene that benefited female fertiliity could survive even if it had twice as large a deleterious effect on male fertiliity.Note though:
"At present it looks as if it may have been confinded to those families Hamer studied."This means that while the Xq28 version IS evidence it may not be the whole answer by any means.This message has been edited by NosyNed, 08-22-2005 03:57 PM

StanfrodEnvironment and upbringing. Wrong. I've seen many former homosexuals in the church that are now married and have families. There are plenty of ex-gays out there. That's like saying science hasn't figure out how dogs came from rocks 4.6 billion years ago.Which it hasn't.But it might!What do you guys always tell me, you can't prove a negative."Well we haven't found it yet, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."Come on, you would call me on that if I used that in an argument for Moses' Tablets.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

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ou would be 100% correct if homosexuality were a racial trait, but it isn't. It's a choice.

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These do not exhaust all possibilities. Something might not be genetically determined but still not a choice. I also do not believe that sexual orientation is a simple matter of genetics, but neither do I believe that it is a choice. I certainly do not believe that my political or religious beliefs are genetically determined, but neither are these choices that I made. I certainly did not choose to be an atheist, for example.

That was covered in message 246 Ned.This argument was already presented.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Perfect examples.Absolute gold.Thank you.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

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However, this is evidence that genetics is significantly involved.

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Not conclusive evidence, though. If genetics were significant, then I would expect that fraternal twins would show the same statistics as the adopted siblings. Instead, in both cases we see the fraternal twins being higher (although I don't know whether this is significantly higher). In fact, it is exactly this evidence that makes me doubt that genetics is all that significant.

I am not aware that ANYONE is suggesting that genetics is ALL that is significant. This, like many other things, must clearly have some complex set of causes. The gestational environment is another one that seems to have a significant effect as well for example.The arguement was that homosexuality was a choice. Clearly other things are at play. To what extent and how many of them there are will need further work. However, it is clear that genetics does have a significant effect. With that the case I don't know how individuals are supposed to make a choice about what alleles they get.

They're still gay Tal...sorry.By the way, Did you read the edit to my post? Look, we both know that evolution doesn't make this claim, so save your smart-ass remarks for people that might believe it. So why do you keep insisting that it's a choice then?