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Author Topic:   La Cage Aux Foley
Omnivorous
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Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 34 of 92 (354189)
10-04-2006 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Taz
10-04-2006 1:27 PM


Gasby writes:
The reason I am so bothered by the liberals going all gung ho about this is because WE should be talking about THE REAL IMPORTANT ISSUES, like congress giving the president to suspend habeas corpus for non-citizens.
Over and over we see someone's personal life being more important than an national/international issue? What are we, a nation of gossipers?
I think it is largely because the political pendulum has turned, and the GOP is being hoisted by its own petard on many fronts.
The party of smaller government has morphed into Big Brother.
The party of moral smugness appears to have winked at early indications of problems involving Foley and Congressional pages.
The party of Homeland Security seems to have ignored warnings about Al Qaeda's plans to attack the U.S., and then lied about it by both omission and commission.
The list goes on. Thematically, a party that has cynically and hypocritically used divisive issues of fear and mistrust to gain and hold power at last looks to be nekkid as a jay bird in a cold wind. Why shouldn't their opponents enjoy and encourage the view?
A principled Democrat who refused to profit politically from these events could be called many things, most prominent among them, "Another November Loser." Reformation of our political culture is much to be desired, but it won't happen with the GOP in control of all three branches of government.
Interestingly, the strongest attacks on Foley and the House leadership are coming from the same moralistic right wing that has thumped the left with the same club for years. Indeed, the Wall St. Journal has suggested that political correctness re homosexuality tied the hands of House leaders; other Republicans have questioned the timing of the story, suggesting Democrats left kids at risk so they could break the story on the last day of official business in Congress. I'm curious to see how that plays in Peoria.
It is political infighting, no holds barred: the GOP rose by it and may well fall by it. Perhaps a Democratic Party chastened by a few years in the wilderness will do a better job in office this time of defining the important issues you name and offering effective leadership.
Welcome to America.

God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Taz, posted 10-04-2006 1:27 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Silent H, posted 10-04-2006 2:20 PM Omnivorous has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 36 of 92 (354229)
10-04-2006 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Silent H
10-04-2006 2:20 PM


Hi, Holmes. I understand your past year has been as catastrophically eventful as mine. We'll have to compare notes sometime.
I get your point but its a vicious cycle. In the end both sides must continue in this manner.
I understand your point as well and largely agree. But if we wait for the best to occur before we stop the bad, the worst will continue.
The electorate can stop it by demanding something more important to focus on.
I agree, though they show no signs of ever doing so. I don't want to wait for the reformation of human nature before pulling the GOP away from the wheel.
The key observation I want the electorate to make here is not about adolescent sexuality and middle-age fantasies (I doubt the young fellow was actually traumatized at all), but rather that the Republicans are not who they claim to be, and that they will in fact betray their stated principles in pursuit of power without a moment's hesitation. The story has legs beyond sexual sensationalism primarily because of the suggestions of a cover-up. To condemn that is not to engage in equivalent conduct.
Like you, for example, I support a robust military: unilateral disarmament in this world is a fool's errand; yet I also loathe violence. All in all, it is difficult to navigate a fully rounded set of humane political principles with pristine hands.
The Republicans have attempted to portray Democrats as depraved moral relativists who would not only condone but enjoy and encourage all bad behaviors. I don't see how the Democrats can reveal that essential hypocrisy except by spotlighting it when the mask slips, whatever the issue or occasion. I do think this story has synergistic impact because of revelations about GOP hypocrisy and failure in the unrelated areas I mentioned.
Hopefully, a reversal of political fortune on those terms will help the electorate raise the bar for future political leadership. Voices of reason on sexual issues are few and far between in the political world--though there are more outside the GOP than inside it--but an environment without GOP domination of all three branches of government can only increase the possibilities.

God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Silent H, posted 10-04-2006 2:20 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Silent H, posted 10-05-2006 6:06 AM Omnivorous has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 77 of 92 (354588)
10-05-2006 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Silent H
10-05-2006 6:06 AM


The cartoon about it being too bad the writ of habeas corpus wasn't written in 1990! Too funny: as in, ouch, that hurts so funny...
I don't have a moral problem with Foley's chat activities, per se, any more than I did with Clinton's diddling dallying with Monica: less so, in fact, because Clinton had taken vows of monogamy, and I assume Foley had not. In pragmatic terms, though, both men provided good reasons to question their judgment, and both men's actions suggest an arrogance of power the puncturing of which one has difficulty not cheering about.
Still, the Republicans should not have brought government to a standstill over Clinton's pecadillos (cigar, cigarette...pecadillo?); Foley is just a poor shmuck who tapped out his mid-life-crisis lust for youth on a national stage, and outside the current, close-to-election day scenario, the story would be dying already.
About both one can ask, What WERE they thinking?--while also reflecting that a man who too often thinks with the wrong head is not the best candidate for office.
I am terribly frightened about what is happening in our national government. Giving a president the power to suspend habeas corpus at will is clearly unconstitutional: we are not in a time of "invasion or rebellion" as the Constitution stipulates for habeas corpus suspension. That Congress thinks it can simply tell the judiciary to butt out of the issue is almost as frightening.
I desperately want the Republicans to lose one chamber of Congress to put a brake on Bush's fascist tendencies (and theirs) for the next two years. I would set aside causes long near and dear to me, swallow hard and vote for a Democrat who opposed those causes, if it were necessary to take that one chamber.
Let me add that those voters likely to be appalled by the suspension of habeas corpus, etc., probably don't need much jaw-boning, so I actually don't think this story is crowding out much in the way of more important discourse, at least as it relates to the upcoming mid-term election, and the Foley story is dead on election day. Bush & Co. have lost a number of moderate Republicans, libertarians, independents, and former switch-hitting Democrats with their fear-mongering, and their contempt for the Constitution, Geneva Convention, and the truth. Very likely the voters who would be swayed by those issues have been swayed.
I cannot but let this "scandal"--however absurd and trivial it may, in fact, be--give me hope that one last shock of recognition will peel away a few more voters, enough to make the difference. Note that immunizing U.S. soldiers and agents against charges of war crimes also has been high on the Bush agenda: along with the possession of one chamber of Congress comes, at last, the power to launch serious investigations. Once the crust of complete, tri-branch dominance is breached, I suspect the Bush regime will collapse like a draining boil.
I wish you success whatever the issue is.
Everything is fine now. Good peasant stock--takes a kickin', keeps on lickin'!

God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Silent H, posted 10-05-2006 6:06 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Silent H, posted 10-06-2006 6:12 AM Omnivorous has not replied

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