Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,905 Year: 4,162/9,624 Month: 1,033/974 Week: 360/286 Day: 3/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Rationalism: a paper tiger?
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 125 (433328)
11-11-2007 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2007 10:32 AM


Yet more nonsense.
This is the face of postmodernism which lives in consummate contradiction-- moralizing absolutely about the falseness of a moral absolute, with an allegiance to nothing but its own self-congratulatory spirit.
Yet more misrepresentation.
We've been down this path many times Nem yet you seem to forget everything that has been explained to you.
No one denies that there are absolutes. The fact that there are absolutes does not mean that there must be Absolute MORALITY.
But what folk have actually told you, time after time, "So far neither you or anyone else has been able to present an example of Absolute Morality."
There are lots of absolutes, even things that are absolutely true.
There is no conflict.
We also know that humans are capable of imagining Ideals which we now know are impossible in reality, for example an Absolutely Level Surface, or an Absolutely Straight Line. The fact that they cannot exist does not mean that humans cannot imagine such things.
G. K. Chesterton writes:
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected."
Edited by jar, : add Chesterton quote

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2007 10:32 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2007 2:24 PM jar has replied
 Message 24 by arachnophilia, posted 11-12-2007 3:04 AM jar has not replied
 Message 125 by Phat, posted 11-01-2010 11:11 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 125 (433366)
11-11-2007 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2007 2:24 PM


Re: Yet more nonsense.
Fine. Then there is no morality. And the grandeur must then be explained in other terms.
Sorry but that is simply stupid and also has been explained to you over and over again. The fact that no one has ever been able to present some example of "Absolute Morality" does not mean that there are no morals.
Why do you continue to present false dichotomies?
What does morality have to do with grandeur?
Why can't grandeur be explained by many methods?
Chesterton was a humorist.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2007 2:24 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 39 of 125 (433539)
11-12-2007 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
11-11-2007 10:32 AM


Looking for the source.
I know that Ravi (actually I think one of his ghost writers, likely Jill Carattini should get the credit) likes to drop this quotation into every sales spiel, but other than the assertion it was by G. K. Chesterton, can you tell us the source?
I have read much of Chesterton over the years, and honestly do not recall that quotation. I'd like to check it out if possible and see just what it is saying within context or if it is simply another example of "Misrepresenting for Jesus™"

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-11-2007 10:32 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 11-12-2007 2:13 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 125 (433554)
11-12-2007 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
11-12-2007 2:13 PM


Re: Looking for the source.
Ah. On his reply to his work "The Heretic".
The particular quotation is part of a paragraph. Before the quotemined section he says:
In case the point is not clear, an historic example may illustrate
it. The French Revolution was really an heroic and decisive thing,
because the Jacobins willed something definite and limited.
They desired the freedoms of democracy, but also all the vetoes
of democracy. They wished to have votes and NOT to have titles.
Republicanism had an ascetic side in Franklin or Robespierre
as well as an expansive side in Danton or Wilkes. Therefore they
have created something with a solid substance and shape, the square
social equality and peasant wealth of France. But since then the
revolutionary or speculative mind of Europe has been weakened by
shrinking from any proposal because of the limits of that proposal.
Liberalism has been degraded into liberality. Men have tried
to turn "revolutionise" from a transitive to an intransitive verb.
The Jacobin could tell you not only the system he would rebel against,
but (what was more important) the system he would NOT rebel against,
the system he would trust.
The sentence that precedes the quotemined section is significant.
The Jacobin could tell you not only the system he would rebel against, but (what was more important) the system he would NOT rebel against, the system he would trust.
Leaving that out is a clear indication of obfuscation.
When I ask for an example of some Absolute Morality, I do not deny absolutes. I have repeatedly said that there are absolutes, and further, that humans can imagine absolutes, IDEALs, that we also know to be impossible in reality. To repeat some examples, I have pointed to the Ideal of the Perfectly Straight Line or the Absolutely Smooth Surface, neither of which can exist in reality yet which can be easily imagined by most.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 11-12-2007 2:13 PM ringo has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024