EvC Forum: What the H - Holmes is back!

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Topic: What the H - Holmes is back!

Hyroglyphx

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Message 12 of 65 (434209)
11-14-2007 10:07 PM

Reply to: Message 6 by crashfrog
11-14-2007 9:53 AM

Man, you really know how to kill the mood

I see your posts haven't gotten any shorter, and that you haven't stopped misrepresenting people.

If it really is you, perhaps we can expect an improvement in honesty levels this time around?

Instead of throwing a tantrum while every one else is rejoicing the return of EvC's prodigal son, why not just say nothing at all, or at least reserve your scorn for an appropriate thread?

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

This message is a reply to:
	Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 11-14-2007 9:53 AM		crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 11-14-2007 11:07 PM	Hyroglyphx has replied
	Message 26 by nator, posted 11-15-2007 6:22 PM	Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx

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Message 14 of 65 (434224)
11-14-2007 11:46 PM

Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
11-14-2007 11:07 PM

Re: Man, you really know how to kill the mood

I never found Holmes's contributions anything to celebrate

If ever you leave for personal matters and decide to come back, perhaps people will feel the same of you since you have a tendency to alienate. Or maybe they'd have enough common courtesy to not drag you through the mud the first chance they get.

But honesty, NJ, we already have the POTM threads; is all of EvC to be a mutual admiration society for a select few individuals?

Because saying hello to someone after a hiatus is different than nominating them for a POTM.

Holmes, in his past incarnation, was one of the chief figures guilty of the latter.

Holmes and I are vastly different in many ways. We don't see eye to eye about most things. But we seem to be able to converse positively despite our differences. Hands down, the quality I liked most admired was his candor, which seems to be the one quality you think he lacks. Chiroptera is another affable fellow who happens also to be my polar opposite. I don't think we see one thing eye to eye. And that's fine. We seem to be able to discuss our different view points constructively.

Yeah, and I helped. I'm doing my best to change. Is Holmes?

I just really don't see the things you describe about Holmes. Sure, we're all fallible beings who can be tempted to do things we shouldn't do. I'm sure most of us could have handled things better in certain instances than we have. In my honest opinion, I think Holmes handles criticism better than most.

If the past few days are any indication he's just going to keep doing what he's been doing, using dishonesty and misrepresentation to defend positions like everybody knows he does, like I've proven he does, even as they become more and more ridiculous, because he simply can't ever bear to admit when he's wrong.

Give me an example so I can understand your frustration. Please understand, it seems you talk more poorly about him than me! That seems inconceivable given the fact you have less in common with me, with just as many, if not more, heated arguments.

And how is a thread about Holmes's return not the appropriate topic to raise concerns about the return of Holmes?

Alright, you make a good point here. It is perhaps an appropriate place, and you aren't violating any forum rules. Maybe for me its a question of good manners...? If you left and came back, and some people were rejoicing your return, I wouldn't trash you. I'd keep it to myself. I guess I would think of it as mean-spirited at the worst and tacky in the least.

Plenty of people trash Faith every time it's suggested she be "allowed" to return. Holmes's conduct was just as bad, potentially even worse for how it usually went unnoticed.

You and Holmes have been here about three years longer than I have, so it is possible that I have missed a lot of nasty dialogue over the years. But in the time that I've known the both of you, I haven't seen anything so egregious that you feel this upset over.

A good start would be if he started taking on some of the creationists with some good science. I'd savor the chance to actually learn something from Holmes, like I used to, years ago. (So, actually, I guess when I said "never", I was lying. There actually was a time when I would look forward to what Holmes had to say.)

What changed?

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

This message is a reply to:
	Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 11-14-2007 11:07 PM		crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 11-15-2007 9:43 AM		Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx

Inactive Member

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Message 27 of 65 (434398)
11-15-2007 6:24 PM

Reply to: Message 17 by crashfrog
11-15-2007 9:43 AM

Re: Man, you really know how to kill the mood

Because you're not as dishonest

Gee, thanks.

and while it's hard to get you to admit when you're wrong, there are at least some things you're not willing to do in advance of an argument.

Eh, I'll take any compliment from you, no matter how small.

That aside, I still don't see why you think he is disingenuous.

Does it make it a little more incomprehensible if I tell you that my respect for someone isn't based so much on what they know or if they agree with me, as much as how they act?

I would hope that's where your respect lies.

I was able to find something about that I collected a few years ago.

Was I supposed to read the succeeding dialogue as well, or just that post?

I'd rather than they were open about their concerns rather than simply allow me to blunder along in a way that was an obstacle to more interesting debate.

But people do try to do that all throughout the forum. Everyone thinks they've found their Eden and their way is the right way, which, if you think about it, makes sense. Anyone that ascribes to a belief obviously does so because they belief in the veracity of the claim.

Indeed I've long begged people to do just that; I rarely have takers. Either I've managed to completely cow everybody into submission, or this rumored silent majority that finds me so insufferable simply doesn't exist.

There have been a few people who have been vocal about it. I don't need to name names, but there have been a few people to call you out on it-- otherwise, how would you even know that people have taken issue with it?

That also doesn't mean you aren't liked here. Sure, you annoy the hell out of me, just as I'm sure its likewise for you. But you are a valuable asset to EvC. Besides, we need that contrast to keep EvC interesting. Yin-yang... I'm up, you're down. You're darkness and I'm light

(A little joke)

Holmes became obsessed with winning arguments to the point where he abandoned all efforts to actually inform.

He's got reason to have a really unique perspective on things. I wouldn't presume to offer up his biography, and doubtless I'd get it all wrong, but that stuff was always a lot more interesting than the sophistry and misrepresentation his posting efforts seemed to devolve into.

I don't see it. I guess like most of our discussions, we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

This message is a reply to:
	Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 11-15-2007 9:43 AM		crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 30 by Taz, posted 11-15-2007 6:45 PM	Hyroglyphx has replied
	Message 31 by crashfrog, posted 11-15-2007 7:04 PM	Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx

Inactive Member

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Message 32 of 65 (434464)
11-15-2007 10:47 PM

Reply to: Message 30 by Taz
11-15-2007 6:45 PM

Re: Man, you really know how to kill the mood

I am one of those that are constantly doubting our own interpretation of reality.

Like, do we really exist? type deal?

Now, don't confuse this with absolutely not having any idea what something is not. While I still have doubts as to what right and wrong are, I can definitely tell that what you believe are wrong most of the time.

If you aren't entirely sure what is real, then how are you certain that I'm wrong most of time?-- relatively speaking. More than that, how can I even be wrong when there is no such thing as right and wrong beyond opinions?

Us skeptics are not as "all knowing" as people often think.

Oh, I already knew that.

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

This message is a reply to:
	Message 30 by Taz, posted 11-15-2007 6:45 PM		Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 33 by Taz, posted 11-16-2007 10:49 AM		Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx

Inactive Member

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Message 36 of 65 (434638)
11-16-2007 5:22 PM

Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
11-16-2007 10:49 AM

Re: Man, you really know how to kill the mood

I said I am not sure what's real, not what's not real.

But that's a non-sequitor. If you know what isn't real, then you would also know what is real by default. Since there are only two choices from to choose, knowing one answer will automatically give the other answer too because of the process of elimination.

Just because we can't tell what's right doesn't mean we can't tell what's wrong.

That makes no sense. If one is in ambiguity, then the other would be too. If you had multiple questions, then, sure, that would make sense. But knowing one will automatically give to the answer to the other.

So it seems that you aren't sure what is real or what is not real, in which case, you would essentially be promoting nihilism or perhaps even solipsism.

As I have said before, I'm a moral absolutist. I must admit that I don't know what those moral absolutes are most of the time. However, your "opinions" look more to me like negative answers even though the problems only consisted of positive numbers.

I'm not sure I follow. Can you elucidate for me?

“This life’s dim windows of the soul, distorts the heavens from pole to pole, and goads you to believe a lie, when you see with and not through the eye.” -William Blake

This message is a reply to:
	Message 33 by Taz, posted 11-16-2007 10:49 AM		Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 37 by Rrhain, posted 11-17-2007 5:20 AM		Hyroglyphx has not replied

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