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Author Topic:   Did Mod cause the collapse of evcforum?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1505 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 346 of 424 (568097)
07-04-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by Hyroglyphx
07-04-2010 9:31 AM


Re: Deliberation
Most certainly: nay

And to the thread question of

quote:
Did Mod cause the collapse of evcforum?

Again: nay

Looking back at Moderation 14.0, it seems quite clear that it was Rrhain's usual bullshit that led up to admin's explosive response (tho' it was Berb's words that were the actual trigger.) Rrhain was repeatedly asked by various members to desist but he refused and continued in his childish sexually charged rant. His had one decent message that actually appeared constructive in its argumentation, and my one post in that thread was to give him kudos for it. But sadly, it was just one amongst his many others.

Has the actual cull been expunged from the history? I can't find Brenna's comments to Percy that signalled the beginning of the cull-proper.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-04-2010 9:31 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Admin, posted 07-05-2010 8:15 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 347 of 424 (568104)
07-04-2010 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by Hyroglyphx
07-04-2010 9:31 AM


Re: Deliberation
Did Modulous overstep his duties and go from forum enforcement to forum brutality?

My vote: Nay
Not guilty


This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-04-2010 9:31 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-04-2010 11:09 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 348 of 424 (568105)
07-04-2010 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Bolder-dash
07-04-2010 9:58 AM


Re: Without precedent - or well documented history of capriciousness?t
I also would like to know how often Dr. A, or AzPaul3 or any number of other antagonistic repliers have been given second chances...and 3rd, and 4th....

Oh that is too easy.

We stayed on-topic and did not fight any admin/moderator request to stop.

Being antagonistic toward a petulant childish display of personal animosity is not against the forum rules.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Bolder-dash, posted 07-04-2010 9:58 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 349 of 424 (568114)
07-04-2010 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by Bolder-dash
07-04-2010 9:58 AM


Re: Without precedent - or well documented history of capriciousness?t
Yes, I read that faith was suspended indefinitely until she could find someone who shares her views. I actually had not been aware that having someone share your same views was also a requirement of this forum. I may be in trouble in that case.

What you may not be aware of is the history of this forum, and the leniency shown to Faith for years.

I also would like to know how often Dr. A, or AzPaul3 or any number of other antagonistic repliers have been given second chances...and 3rd, and 4th.

Meeting resistance to your views is not a forum rule, in fact, it's the only reason this forum exists. All that matters is the behavior, not that someone disagrees with you. Imagine that: On a forum entitled Evolution vs Creation, that evolutionists and creationists would clash. Who'd have thunk it?


"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." Blaise Pascal
This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 350 of 424 (568115)
07-04-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 347 by AZPaul3
07-04-2010 10:21 AM


Re: Deliberation
Tally it up....

So far that is 4 Nay's (not guilty), to 0 Yea's (guilty).


"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." Blaise Pascal
This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by AZPaul3, posted 07-04-2010 10:21 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by AZPaul3, posted 07-04-2010 11:34 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 351 of 424 (568122)
07-04-2010 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Hyroglyphx
07-04-2010 11:09 AM


Re: Deliberation
And of the rest of the community who, as I have said, do not give a flying flip about this whole mess, I think that silence speaks loud.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-04-2010 11:09 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Theodoric, posted 07-04-2010 11:52 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5777
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 352 of 424 (568125)
07-04-2010 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by AZPaul3
07-04-2010 11:34 AM


Re: Deliberation
I have been coming here off and on for almost 5 years now. I don't know if that makes me any more or less a newbie or old timer than anyone else.

One of the reason I have left for a while in the past was because of the vitriol from some former members. It seemed that fighting through the drama was not worth it to get to the meat of the discussions.

I was pleasantly surprised when I returned this last time. There seems to be a marked improvement in the quality of debate. I think this has come from effective and at times aggressive moderating techniques.

My biggest problems in the past was the free rein given to fundies in the past. This has mellowed some. We seem to have a more educated, more willing to produce data, fundie and creo population now. For example, Faith was given another chance(she had a melt down, but was given a chance). The others are reminded to stay on topic and to back their arguments. This is a huge improvement. Then we have newbies like slevesque. He is completely wrong all the time(ha ha), but his arguments tend to fairly well thought out.

This is not a free for all forum. There are very precise rules. This is something that is rare. The Mods do a good job enforcing the rules. They are not perfect, but they are good. In the past I have been on the receiving end and thought I was unfairly treated. For the most part in hindsight they were doing what they were supposed to do.

That Crash is still carrying this on after 3 years is amazing. Time to let it go.
I have checked out the other board. It didn't pull me in like this one. Maybe it is the color blue.

I feel like I know the people here, for the most part I like the people here. There was no collapse. There may have been a refinement, but there was no collapse.

I vote nay on all counts of the indictment.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by AZPaul3, posted 07-04-2010 11:34 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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 Message 356 by Phat, posted 07-04-2010 1:09 PM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 364 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 10:19 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 353 of 424 (568128)
07-04-2010 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by Theodoric
07-04-2010 11:52 AM


Re: Deliberation
A well-reasoned explanation. Thank you for your input


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by Theodoric, posted 07-04-2010 11:52 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30712
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 354 of 424 (568137)
07-04-2010 12:39 PM


My vote is ...

Mod is guilty.

What is the point of having guilt if you cannot delegate it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 355 of 424 (568139)
07-04-2010 1:00 PM


Re: Charges
Hi all,

I was there I have been on the receiving end of suspensions and banishments. Some by Mod.

I deserved all of them.

Therefore I vote nay on all counts of the indictment.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10975
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 356 of 424 (568141)
07-04-2010 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by Theodoric
07-04-2010 11:52 AM


Rumors Of Our Demise Were Greatly Exaggerated
Theodoric writes:

That Crash is still carrying this on after 3 years is amazing.

Crash said himself he was just dropping by for a moment. I think he wanted to reclaim the all time posting count, but with jar back, he will never get it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by Theodoric, posted 07-04-2010 11:52 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 357 of 424 (568144)
07-04-2010 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by Bolder-dash
07-04-2010 9:58 AM


faith and dr.A
Yes, I read that faith was suspended indefinitely until she could find someone who shares her views. I actually had not been aware that having someone share your same views was also a requirement of this forum. I may be in trouble in that case.

Faith was extremely disruptive and was given a series of indefinite suspensions. Some lasting for months or longer. When she returned, things were OK for a while, but soon things would degrade into accusations of dishonesty, lying and other things that disrupt civil discussion. See Message 754. Percy could have simply indefinitely suspended her, but he came up with a compromise:

quote:
I'm asking Faith to find a partner who shares her views, and she and that partner can only advocate positions they both share. In this way I hope to avoid the constant protests of "That's not what I said, you're all misunderstanding me," and also to avoid the advocacy of positions that make no sense to anyone, creationists included, because when Faith gets her dander up she won't back away from any position, no matter how ridiculous.

She refused - Percy appreciated it was kind of an unreasonable request, but they discussed possible solutions and nothing worked. Can you find a forum which would be fairer?

I also would like to know how often Dr. A, or AzPaul3 or any number of other antagonistic repliers have been given second chances...and 3rd, and 4th....

If you feel Dr. A or AzPaul are being problematic at any given time, you can take your concerns to Report discussion problems here: No.2. I can't remember either of them becoming so problematic that an indefinite suspension is merited - but Dr. A fairly regularly gets short suspensions which tends to serve as adequate reminders.

We have, of late, allowed debate to take on a more 'rough and tumble' dynamic - with has its advantages and disadvantages. It certainly makes knowing where the line is more difficult.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Bolder-dash, posted 07-04-2010 9:58 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 358 of 424 (568198)
07-04-2010 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by cavediver
07-04-2010 6:24 AM


Re: Without precedent - or well documented history of capriciousness?
an you not see how unbelievably OTT you are? Restrained?

I don't know what "OTT" stands for, but, yes, restrained. Again - it's not a personal vendetta against Mod, it's not a three year grudge, it's not about any of that. It's not emotional in any way, unlike your replies to me.

It's just my judgement that he isn't qualified to moderate.

Crash, your inability to recognise any chance of being wrong

I'm frequently wrong, and when I am, I admit it. There's literally nobody at EvC who has admitted being wrong as often as I have. Really, you can look it up.

I don't admit to being wrong just because people say I'm wrong, but then, neither do you. But I have no trouble admitting my own errors, I've made countless posts where I've had to do just that. Some in this thread, even. Mod was actually right about some things and I was wrong, and where that's been the case I've been very forthright about saying so.

The simple facts are that you were wrong then, Rrhain was wrong then, you are wrong now, Rrhain is wrong now.

Absolutely incorrect. I was right then, and subsequent events proved it. I'm sorry that you're unable to see it, but subsequent events are a matter of record and there's just no disputing that a crisis in moderator confidence occurred precisely as I had predicted at the time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by cavediver, posted 07-04-2010 6:24 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Theodoric, posted 07-04-2010 10:03 PM crashfrog has responded
 Message 360 by ICANT, posted 07-04-2010 10:06 PM crashfrog has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5777
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 359 of 424 (568211)
07-04-2010 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by crashfrog
07-04-2010 9:10 PM


Sums it up
It's just my judgment that he isn't qualified to moderate.

Pretty much sums it up. You know what. Whoopee, zippity doo dah. There ain't a damn thing you can do about it. You can bitch and moan all you want. At the end of the day he will still be a mod and you will look like a whiny bitch holding a 3 year grudge.

I do not think you are a whiny bitch, but that is how you look. It is kind of tough to take this line seriously.

it's not a personal vendetta against Mod, it's not a three year grudge

Even if it is true, that isn't how it looks.

When I used to be in management I used to always tell my employees that perception was very important. Even if they were honest and working hard, if they give the perception that they were not it was also a bad thing.

You are causing people to have a negative perception of you. Whether your denials are true or not, it does not matter. You have caused people to have the negative perception.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 9:10 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 10:31 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 360 of 424 (568213)
07-04-2010 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by crashfrog
07-04-2010 9:10 PM


Re: Without precedent - or well documented history of capriciousness?
Hi crash,

crashfrog writes:

Absolutely incorrect. I was right then, and subsequent events proved it. I'm sorry that you're unable to see it, but subsequent events are a matter of record and there's just no disputing that a crisis in moderator confidence occurred precisely as I had predicted at the time.

There was several people who agreed with you then.

Some of the same people who agreed with you then still do.

Those that disagreed with you then still do.

So get over it.

Chalk it up to a difference of opinions.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 9:10 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by crashfrog, posted 07-04-2010 10:34 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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