Has the bias made this forum essentially irrelevant?

It seems to me that this post is the reason there is so little debate from the creationist side. Using the terms dumb, stupid etc as part of an argument and then get a 5 rating for it, outlines the problem perfectly.

Look at the title of this forum. It is Creation vs Evolution. Why have this forum if creationism is not a valid point of view?The point of the OP on this thread is that there are no creationists left to debate. I think that your post and the responses to my post gives a clear indication as to why.Essentially I believe in theistic evolution and so I'm more than happy to debate with creationist but hopefully I can do it without having to use terms like dumb and stupid.If it is decided that creationism is not a valid point of view then I suggest that the forum name be changed to theism vs atheism or something else again.Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This is from the page called "About This Site". It does seem to me that the webmaster felt it was worthy of debate to the point that he had to point out that he is pro-evolution.Again, the point of this thread was that Bolder-dash was lamenting the fact that there are almost no creationists left. I am merely trying to point out why. No matter what the subject, sarcasm and ridicule usually don't produce a reasonable debate or discussion.If Percy does not consider creationism a valid point of view then I suggest he change the title of the forum to something that actually depicts what he wants it to be about.

What would you call this then? I don't mean to pick on you jar. Your post is pretty typical and obviously by the 5 rating, as well as the other responses, you have a lot of support.Once again, I'm just giving my opinion as to why there are almost no creationists left on the board.

I've made my point jar. I think it is unfortunate that there are so few creationists/fundamentalists/literalists on the forum.I think that there are many on this forum that could enter into a good discussion on a variety of issues. On the thread entitled "Catholics and Inerrancy" I just had a discussion with crashfrog about my beliefs. I frankly don't think he has a lot of time for my views but he didn't allow it to sink into name calling or ridicule. I enjoyed the discussion.I think we could do the same thing for creationists, and if we really are serious about trying to convince them that their views are wrong then I suggest that respect is the better route to go. JMHO.

Hi TazI don't have any disagreement with your post. My only point is that by using sarcasm, ridicule, labelling etc it drives creationists away and the reason for this forum, at least as I understand it, is gone.If discusions were made respectfully then just maybe there would be more left that at least could benefit from some of the knowledge on this forum.I happen to be one of those with no scientific nor theological background. I actually started here because I was interested in science and sometimes the discussions actually get down to a basic enough level that even I benefit.I am just trying to address the isssue in the OP. I do think that there is a lack of respect for creationists on this forum. Not everyone has the benefit of higher education but they also like to think that there ideas have some value. I thhink they desreve respect.

I agree that the very un-christian postings of some of the Christians on this site is disheartening.I think that the reason that I see the problem as coming more from the other side, is that there are so many more of them. When one of the few creationists venture out there are several from the other side who pile on with a bit of "we've got a live one here" attitude. I realize it is difficult to reconcile the scientific method with philosophy and theology but sometimes maybe it might be best to start with what we can agree on and branch out from there.Don't get me wrong as I have learned a great deal from being on this site and thanks for that. Maybe as there are so few creationists the basic aim of the site should be reviewed. Just a thought.Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Hi TazThe thing is I suppose that there are the various domains of science. You can have cosmologists, geologists, biologists and all sorts of other gists. As a creationist without a scientific background you only have the Bible and your particular understanding of it.Also there is only so much time in the day and there are few creationists. I find that if I get involved in more than one thread I have difficulty keeping up as there is life outside EvC. Really, there is. I'm serious. I think for most of the creationists they are going into a gun fight with a pea shooter and they may see themselves as something analogous to David vs Goliath and there is something admirable about that.Another problem I think is that a materialists on the site are particularly dismissive of faith. When a creationist comes under attack for their faith their whole worldview is under attack. It doesn't rank in the same category as having someone whom you know is far less knowledgeable on your particular area of expertise disagree with you. One is hurtful, the other is frustrating. Maybe you can understand when they so strongly defend their position even though their argument is based on misinformation.

Essentially I agree with your statement. The problem is that when you start out with a statement that someone's whole lifestyle is out of whack because they employ "lousy" theology; you are alienating them and discounting your position in their minds.There is much more gentle, charitable, Christ-like language that can be used to make your point. Frankly, if you really are concerned your belief they are passing on misinformation about the Christian faith to their children, then you might try and make your point in the manner which is most likely to convince them.I'm not saying that I follow my own advice perfectly and likely someone can go back through my posts and make a hypocrite out of me, but that doesn't make my point any less valid.

Yes I read it and have read it previously. I have no problem with it.It is a point of view that a creationist would probably disagree with. I just think that instead of using the term "lousy theology" there is likely a more nuanced way of putting it if you want a productive dicussion.

Hi TazGood post and I get your point. I have known a number of creationists through the years and although they are likely to dismiss evolution based on what I believe is there erroneous view of scripture but I have known any of them that are opposed to, or wouldn't in fact applaud the type of work you are doing. (For the record I'm envious. )Incidentally, and admin forgive me for going off topic, but everything that I have read about early science indicates that it was Christians like Newton who were at the forefront. I don't think that it is fair to assume that fundamentalist Christians would control and discourage science as a few of the Arab nations do. There are a few issues that there are moral disagreements on but that is a very small part of the overall field of science.

First off I'm not a creationist, at least in the way that it is used on this forum. I'm not suggesting that they get a free pass. I'm only suggesting that they be treated with a degree of respect.

But this is exactly what I mean. It does beg the question which is why would you even bother to interact with people that you seem to hold in such disdain. Why not just ignore them?

I'm saying the same thing over and over. I agree that their posts should be countered. All I'm saying is that they should be countered respectfully and I am trying to give the answer to the problem that was presented in the OP, which is the fact that there are few creationists left on this site.For that matter, I can go back and find all sorts of threads where there were absolutely zero posts by creationists, but where there were several posts in a row that gratuitously ridiculed creationists. What is the point of that?

From a creationists point of view I suppose they think it is important to reach you for your own good. He/she may believe that your eternal life is in the balance. Everyone believes that their point of view is important.I'm a Christian and I believe like jar, (although there are a number of other differences between my beliefs and his as I understand his position), that creationists have an incorrect understanding of the scriptures. I think that their beliefs are actually in many cases counter-productive to the work that the church has been given to do.It is my subjective view that there is value in bringing them to my point of view. In fact, I think that it is important enough to try and understand their POV and then respectfully show them where I think they are in error and where I might have a better answer. I have no doubt that if I were to resort to name calling, sarcasm or ridicule of them or their position, although it might give me personal satisfaction, I would have no chance of actually making any headway with them.