EvC Forum: Is Gay Marriage Immoral?

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Topic: Is Gay Marriage Immoral?

RAZD

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Message 46 of 134 (332659)
07-17-2006 6:39 PM

Reply to: Message 5 by LudoRephaim
07-15-2006 1:20 PM

Re: dah source. dah misinformation ...

The real name of this "disorder" is Irritable Bowel Syndrome:

IBS or Irritable Bowel Syndrome is a condition effecting up to 20% of the population and the numbers are rising. There are more women sufferers than men and the age that it commonly starts is at around twenty. It is classed as a ”functional’ disorder as it alters the way the body works and therefore is not diagnosable using traditional means such as examination or blood test.

It is not a commonly understood condition, with the medical community unable to clarify the exact cause. IBS appears to occur due to the body’s inability to regulate the bowel functions correctly. This leads to a number of unpleasant symptoms such as abdominal pain, cramping, excessive wind and irregular bowel movements including constipation and/or diarrhea. However, there are treatments available to allow sufferers to manage their symptoms.

See also see Petris Files - note that the emails are between editors at MSN Encarta.

2. Some other refs indicate that it is an offensive variant for IBS (irritable bowel syndrome). This would be because by attaching "gay" to "bowel syndrome," users are limiting and restricting a syndrome affecting straights and gays alike to just gays, therefore impugning the gays' sexual practices/acts. I question this logic.

Even your reference says "caused by enteric bacteria, viruses, fungi, zooparasites, ... " none of which would be in any way specific to or result from anal sex.

Edited by RAZD, : add signature fix html

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD

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Posts: 20714

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Message 52 of 134 (335009)
07-24-2006 9:24 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
07-15-2006 12:52 PM

Interesting information?

FROM: When Marriage Between Gays Was a Rite (click)

As the churches struggle with the issue of homosexuality, a long tradition of gay marriage indicates that the Christian attitude towards same sex unions may not always have been as "straight" as is now suggested, writes Jim Duffy.

A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine's monastery on Mt. Sinai. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon, Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The "husband and wife" are in fact two men.

Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one sanctified by Christ? The very idea seems initially shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the two men featured, St. Serge and St. Bacchus, two Roman soldiers who became Christian martyrs.

Professor Boswell discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient church liturgical documents (and clearly separate from other types of non-marital blessings of adopted children or land) were ceremonies called, among other titles, the "Office of Same Sex Union" (10th and 11th century Greek) or the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

These ceremonies had all the contemporary symbols of a marriage: a community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar, their right hands joined as at heterosexual marriages, the participation of a priest, the taking of the Eucharist, a wedding banquet afterwards. All of which are shown in contemporary drawings of the same sex union of Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his companion John. Such homosexual unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th / early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (Geraldus Cambrensis) has recorded.

FROM: Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe (click) by John Boswell:

He offers a sophisticated interpretation of the concepts of love and friendship and the institution of heterosexual marriage, from the ancient Greeks and Romans through the Middle Ages, demonstrating that in the distant past there was not the link of love and marriage expected today. Relationships between men were as likely to be sanctified and consummated as heterosexual ones, and the documentary evidence presented shows that men set up households together in significant numbers. Material on women is sparse, Boswell notes, because most premodern historical sources were written by men, for men, about men; women figure in them either as property or as objects of sexual desire.

Not since Boswell's Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality (Univ. of Chicago Pr., 1981) have Christians of all creeds confronted a work that makes them look so closely at their notions of the relationship between the church and its gay and lesbian believers. Diligently researched and documented, this immensely scholarly work covers everything from the "paired" saints of Perpetua and Felicitas and Serge and Bacchus to lesbian transvestites in Albania. Examining evidence that the early church celebrated a same-sex nuptial liturgy, Boswell compares both Christian same-sex unions to Christian heterosexual unions and non-Christian same-sex unions to non-Christian heterosexual unions.

Just some more traditions that show culturally sanctified homosexual relationships ... not far from the (apple) tree eh?

Enjoy.

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RAZD

Member (Idle past 1434 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 83 of 134 (335670)
07-27-2006 8:22 AM

Reply to: Message 64 by AlienInvader
07-26-2006 10:48 AM

Re: bigotry

i'd like to see a woman use a urinal.

It's just a matter of having the right ... tools ...

Tinkle safe - YOUNG; EDWARD J.
http://www.magic-cone.com/
-‘

now can we get back to the "gay marriage morality" issue?

homosexual couples don't do anything that heterosexual couples don't do
heterosexual couples aren't barred from marriage on the basis of their sexual practices
===
therefore marriage is not about sexual practices
some homosexual couples have children
some heterosexual couples don't\can't have children
===
therefore the issue is not about having children
some cultures {have\have had} cultural traditions recognizing gay relationships, some even using the cultural terminology "marriage"
some cultures DON'T have cultural traditions of "marriage"
===
therefore it is not a universal cultural tradition division
a free culture recognizes that people have the right to do their beliefs, behavior, etcetera, as long as it does not impact those rights of others
an equal culture recognizes that rights apply equally to all people
===
therefore it IS about freedom and equality

and imh(ysa)o, anyone that want's to restrict rights, freedom and equality for {others} and not impose the same restrictions on {self} is bigoted (and immoral).

Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD

Member (Idle past 1434 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 99 of 134 (335979)
07-28-2006 7:55 AM

Reply to: Message 97 by Silent H
07-28-2006 6:58 AM

production

Remember that homosexual acts really are choosing sexual gratification over otherwise productive endeavours.

So is choosing {protected} sex, so at least there is some 'consistency' for those that want to ban all conception blocking methods and abortificants.

But even with {unprotected} sex the intent is very often sexual gratification intentionally without production -- hence the "rhythm method" promoted by the catholic church.

Assuming the average newly married couple has sex once a day (low, imh(ysa)o) and they can only have one (two if twins) child, AND it usually takes 2 to 3 months to get pregnant when it IS intended, this means a ratio of 1/75 of sex (SPOOYA - just to get a number out there) is really "productive" even with intent to be productive. And this doesn't include sex after {pregnant} has been achieved.

The question for fundamentalists is why {sexual gratification} exists.

Enjoy.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 97 by Silent H, posted 07-28-2006 6:58 AM		Silent H has not replied

RAZD

Member (Idle past 1434 days)

Posts: 20714

From: the other end of the sidewalk

Joined: 03-14-2004

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Message 103 of 134 (336198)
07-28-2006 8:33 PM

Reply to: Message 101 by AlienInvader
07-28-2006 11:18 AM

Re: bigotry

i'm actually highlighting developmental differences, in that it is impossible for women to impregnate women, even if one of them did have sperm, for very obvious physical

Ever watch bird sex? Reptile?
Bird Sex & Eggs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_reproduction in birds and reptiles

Male and female birds and reptiles both have cloacae, an opening through which eggs, sperm, and wastes pass. Intercourse is performed by pressing the lips of the cloacae together, during which time the male transfers his sperm to the female.

There are also cases where a female has become pregnant after having sex with another female that had just had sex with a male -- the sperm was passed from one female to the other in manner similar to the birds and reptiles.

So, no it is not a "physical" barrier.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDSHIV} with Team EvC! (click)

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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