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Author | Topic: The Awesome Obama Thread II | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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strag writes: What I naively thought was that Obama would be a politician who would shape the political agenda rather than be continually thwarted by it. "Thwarted by it"? I'd be thrilled if that was the case. My dear ol' Straggler, Obama has ADVANCED the "conservative" (corporatist/fascist) agenda. More posts to come.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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I feel like I'm talking to a member of Obama's campaign team!! Is there any area where you think the Obama administration failed or even underachieved at all?
Do you think the Obama presidency will go down in history as one of those that future Democrat presidents will aspire to emulate? Do you actually even accept that there are feelings of disillusionment amongst many who supported Obama last time (both in the US and around the world) at all? If so what do you think the source of this disillusionment might be? And in terms of the proof being in the pudding - Do you think Obama will get more, less or about the same number of votes in the next election as he got in the last one? AbE - But I have to add that I really enjoyed your post and have cheered it accordingly. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: More posts to come. Which I will read with interest. But I'll probably leave you and Crash to slug it out. Probably.....
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Is there any area where you think the Obama administration failed or even underachieved at all? I wish they'd asked for a larger stimulus, but at the time I don't think anyone had a notion that Republicans would be the Party of No from Day One. But underachieved? No. I don't think there's even a single example where the Obama Administration has made unforced errors. I think their actions are overwhelmingly both deliberate and deliberated, and represent the maximum achievement possible given the circumstances in Congress. If anything the Obama administration has been one of unexpected achievement - remember when everybody was certain that the Affordable Care Act was dead, after the election of Scott Brown to Ted Kennedy's seat? DOA, they called it. Yet it passed. Obama turned it around in a week. Like I said, I just don't understand the disappointment, except to note that it's usually the case that the black guy has to work twice as hard to be considered half as good.
Do you actually even accept that there are feelings of disillusionment amongst many who supported Obama last time (both in the US and around the world) at all? Sure. It's just that, like yours, the feelings are based on complete ignorance about our system of government, in particular an enormously inflated view of the President's power to enact domestic policy. It's disappointment in not getting a pony, in other words. A disappointment that stems from a faulty sense of entitlement.
Do you think the Obama presidency will go down in history as one of those that future Democrat presidents will aspire to emulate? Yes, absolutely. Obama has already eclipsed Clinton as the most successful Democratic administration in my lifetime. Yours too.
Do you think Obama will get more, less or about the same number of votes in the next election as he got in the last one? He'll get less, certainly, but that's the result of the economy being worse now than it was in 2008. But, that's due to the actions (or really, inaction) of the Federal Reserve Bank failing in its mandate to keep unemployment low. And the Federal Reserve Bank only notionally works for Obama (or for the government at all.)
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
He'll get less, certainly, but that's the result of the economy being worse now than it was in 2008 U sure about that it kind of looks like you are employing more people now days and not loosing jobs an indicator that the economy is improving. Edited by frako, : No reason given. Edited by frako, : No reason given.Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Crash writes: I don't think there's even a single example where the Obama Administration has made unforced errors. I think their actions are overwhelmingly both deliberate and deliberated, and represent the maximum achievement possible given the circumstances in Congress. Yep, I gotta agree with you this time Crash. Obama's DELIBERATE drone attacks have increased dramatically from his predecessor. And considering Obama's just a black man makes it all the more impressive. No unforced errors here to see:
quote: http://www.infowars.com/...e-targeting-rescuers-and-funerals I uppercased "TEN CHILDREN" to make you especially happy. Now, take note, the following photos are not from Obama's funeral attack above, but they DO show Obama's "maximum achievement possible given the circumstances in Congress." I can truly understand how happy this makes you. Enjoy . . .
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
"InfoWars" is a crank site, Dronster, I won't accept any citation from it.
quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio_host) You'll have to make your case with reputable news sources, not conspiracy theorists.
Now, take note, the following photos are not from Obama's funeral attack above Then how do I know that they show casualties of any of Obama's drone strikes? Your say-so? But I already know that you'r a liar.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
U sure about that it kind of looks like you are employing more people now days and not loosing jobs an indicator that the economy is improving. It's started to improve, yes. Obviously there's kind of a time lag with these kinds of things. Maybe it'll have improved enough that voters take notice in November, I dunno. I hope so.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Crash writes: But underachieved? No. I don't think there's even a single example where the Obama Administration has made unforced errors. I think their actions are overwhelmingly both deliberate and deliberated, and represent the maximum achievement possible given the circumstances in Congress. So it's been one of the most successful administrations ever, blameless for any of the ongoing problems and faultless in everything it has done?
Crash writes: If anything the Obama administration has been one of unexpected achievement..... Furthermore you think the Obama administration has actually exceeded expectation. Yet deflated expectation and disillusionment persists.
Straggler writes: Do you actually even accept that there are feelings of disillusionment amongst many who supported Obama last time (both in the US and around the world) at all? Crash writes: Sure. It's just that, like yours, the feelings are based on complete ignorance about our system of government, in particular an enormously inflated view of the President's power to enact domestic policy. Well on one hand you accuse me of having politically unrealistic expectations but on the other hand you shot me down when I suggested that Obama might have been thwarted from doing what he wanted to do by political realities. What do you think Obama wanted to do that he couldn't do because he lacked the power to enact it? And where do you think lots of now disillusioned people got the silly idea that he might actually try and do these things?
Straggler writes: Do you think Obama will get more, less or about the same number of votes in the next election as he got in the last one? Crash writes: He'll get less, certainly, but that's the result of the economy being worse now than it was in 2008. Just that? Do you rememeber "Obamamania" at all? Do you remember the "Yes we can" speeches? Do you rememeber the sense of inspiration last time? Do you think that will be remotely repeated in the forthcoming election? If not - Is that just a result of the Federal Reserve bank's inaction? What other factors?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
So it's been one of the most successful administrations ever, blameless for any of the ongoing problems and faultless in everything it has done? Blameless? Faultless? I don't see either of those words in my post. And I wasn't aware that perfection was the standard we expected from our entirely-human politicians. Obama's racked up win after win and he's poised to do it again for another four years, in spite of the most determined Republican opposition ever mustered and sustained in my lifetime. I think that counts for quite a bit, given that politics is the art of the deal, and the baseline for judging the outcome of a negotiation - any negotiation - isn't whether you got every single thing you could possibly have wanted; it's what you would have gotten had you not negotiated at all.
Furthermore you think the Obama administration has actually exceeded expectation. Yet deflated expectation and disillusionment persists. Yeah. It's funny, almost as though there's something different about this President compared to all the previous ones that subjects him to a different - you might almost say "double" - standard. I wonder what it could be?
What do you think Obama wanted to do that he couldn't do because he lacked the power to enact it? Close Guantanamo, for starters. Legislation on climate change - that was an Administration priority that went by the wayside simply because there wasn't a consensus for it in Congress. Of course, Obama's been taking what action is available to him on that, like empowering the EPA to regulate CO2 as a pollutant.
Do you rememeber "Obamamania" at all? Do you remember the "Yes we can" speeches? Do you rememeber the sense of inspiration last time? What I remember is "PUMA", aka "Party Unity My Ass", when a bunch of Democrats came together to oppose Obama on the basis that Hillary Clinton had been Nominated By God to inherit the White House from her husband, and who the hell was this upstart kid to come in and take it from her? They campaigned for the DLC convention delegates to thwart the primary process and switch their votes from Obama to Clinton, and when they couldn't restore Clinton as the presumptive nominee, a fair number of them decided to vote for McCain instead. What I remember is Joe Lieberman campaigning for McCain. So what I remember is a Democratic party that's little more than a circular firing squad. Unto this came the presidency of Barack Obama, and look what he's managed to do with a base of support capable of little more than mutual betrayal. I dunno, maybe you have to live here. Liberal disappointment with Obama is nothing more than the traditional Democratic passtime of liberals shooting themselves in the foot.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Gosh darn it, you're right, I should have went straight to the official White House website to get information. Between "The President's Schedule" and "First Lady Michelle Obama's Xmas Confections" menu items, there SHOULD be an official "Obama's War Crime Atrocity of the Week" menu button. I'll get ALL of my info from there from now on, thanks for the constructive tip Crash!
Seriously, since the us government doesn't wish to document its atrocities AND the corporate media (whose parent company/subsidiaries produce war weapons) would rather divert the public's attention to the Kardashians, I am guessing your desperate "cranksite-card" will be used no matter where I get Obama war crime news from: Obama Terror Drones: CIA Tactics In Pakistan Include Targeting Rescuers And Funeralszcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information. Crash writes: Then how do I know that they show casualties of any of Obama's drone strikes? Since you've already pre-constructed in your bipolar mind that I am dishonest, then, without you taking heavy medication, I am assuming there is nothing I can show to someone of your limited integrity and ability.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Gosh darn it, you're right, I should have went straight to the official White House website to get information. No, you should go to verifiable, legitimate sources of news, not right-wing conspiracy sites run by the guy who thinks the Oklahoma City bombing was an "inside job." For another sample of the caliber of InfoWars "information":
quote: http://www.infowars.com/...ma-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery quote: http://www.infowars.com/911-inside-job-ten-years-later/ quote: http://www.infowars.com/seal-team-6-crash-was-an-inside-job/ quote: http://www.infowars.com/...ose-who-mock-conspiracy-theorists Cranks and conspiracy theorists, yet here you are flogging InfoWar's propaganda like it's something we're all supposed to take seriously. You're an idiot, Dronester, and your accusations of "mental illness" are something that would be better served pointed back at you, based on these real verifiable examples I've posted here.
I am guessing your desperate "cranksite-card" will be used no matter where I get Obama war crime news from No, the "crank site" card only gets used when you insist on presenting propaganda from crank sites. For instance:
quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_Communications If your reply is that you have to use ZComm and InfoWars and PrisonPlanet because the rest of the media is in on the conspiracy then you're just proving my point.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Crash writes: No, the "crank site" card only gets used when you insist on presenting propaganda from crank sites. For instance: Z Communications - Wikipedia Thanks for proving my point that you'll desperately call EVERY source of mine illegitimate (PLEASE, check with your doctor about adjusting your medication dose). From YOUR supplied link:
quote: That you consider the following "cranks" is just dishonest and/or mentally slow:
quote: quote: quote: quote:
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Furthermore you think the Obama administration has actually exceeded expectation. Yet deflated expectation and disillusionment persists. Yes, some people have found it hard to come to terms with the fact that the word "President" is not synonymous with the word "wizard". The fact is that constitutionally the President is a nobody, it's not like he's Prime Minister. Immediately after the 2008 election I did the math and concluded that the most powerful person in the world was actually Olimpia Snowe. I was right. Given that, I think that Obama's done a good job.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Gosh darn it, you're right, I should have went straight to the official White House website to get information. Between "The President's Schedule" and "First Lady Michelle Obama's Xmas Confections" menu items, there SHOULD be an official "Obama's War Crime Atrocity of the Week" menu button. I'll get ALL of my info from there from now on, thanks for the constructive tip Crash! But Alex fucking Jones? He is to politics what creationists are to biology.
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