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Author Topic:   Why would God write a book of lies and why would you worship such a being?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 9 of 86 (670022)
08-08-2012 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by foreveryoung
08-07-2012 11:38 PM


I have seen a few Christians claim that many of what appears to be historical documents in the bible, actually did not occur at all. If the bible is book that is littered with stories that are pure fiction but that are conveyed in such a way to appear as legitimate, why would you trust anything else that it had to say? If you say some of it is true, is it only because it already agrees with you have decided for yourself to be true?
Well, don't we have to apply the same sort of process to anything purporting to be a historical source? If I want to know about the world in classical times, for example, I would be a fool to ignore Herodotus, but I would equally be a fool to believe everything he says --- and that was written all by one man.
The Bible is a compilation: it's more like if someone bound together everything the ancient Greeks said that had a bearing on history, from the Anabasis of Xenophon, which recounts events at which he was personally present, to the Theogony of Hesiod, which gives an account of the origin of the gods and which the poet attributes to divine inspiration. What would you make of such a volume? Would you take an all-or-nothing approach to it, and declare that either every word of it was true or that none of it could be given any credence?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 32 of 86 (670106)
08-08-2012 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by foreveryoung
08-08-2012 10:25 AM


Why should anyone believe that Christ's atonement is actually able to save anyone if in the same book that is written in, there are stories that are verifiably false?
If I bound the gospels in the same volume as a copy of Alice In Wonderland, would that make them less credible? If I bound them in the same volume as something readily verifiable, such as the phone book, would that make them more credible?
Well then --- the Bible is only "the same book" in that fairly weak sense. One guy wrote one bit, one guy wrote another, another guy wrote another, and so on. This is why the Bible is written in such a hodgepodge of forms and in three different languages. Then one guy decided that they should be compiled together and called "the Bible", and another guy decided that different works should go into the compilation and different works should be left out, and a third guy disagreed with the first two ...
So ...
Christianity is about trusting in Christ for salvation. You cannot trust that Christ's saving work on your behalf actually happened or is good enough to do the job if you cannot trust the author of statements to that effect.
So ...who's "the author"?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 43 of 86 (670129)
08-09-2012 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by foreveryoung
08-09-2012 12:54 AM


God tells us that he speaks to us in his word. If his word is untrustworthy then so is he.
Well, that got circular quickly.
"God tells us in the Koran that he speaks to us through the Koran. If the Koran is untrustworthy than so is he."
So are you going to
(a) become a Muslim?
(b) call God a liar?
(c) stop employing logical fallacies?

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 45 by foreveryoung, posted 08-09-2012 8:57 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 49 of 86 (670170)
08-09-2012 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by foreveryoung
08-09-2012 8:57 AM


So are you going to
(a) become a Muslim?
(b) call God a liar?
(c) stop employing logical fallacies?
None of the above.
I really do recommend option (c).
There can only be one true word from an eternal being if the sources claiming to be that word are in indisputable contradiction.
At most one, to be more precise.
There can only be one true word from an eternal being if the sources claiming to be that word are in indisputable contradiction. I am not going to call God a liar even if there appears to be fiction in his word. Either I do not understand the style of literature being employed or it happened like it said and we don't know everything yet.
A Muslim could say exactly the same thing about his chosen "word of God" and the problems with that.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 51 of 86 (670199)
08-10-2012 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by PaulK
08-10-2012 5:14 AM


It takes a leap of faith to say that the Bible is entirely correct.
It takes a leap of faith to say that the Bible is accurate on the issue of salvation despite being incorrect on other issues.
Why is the first leap of faith acceptable to you, but the second not ?
"Who swallows a camel but strains at a gnat?"

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