Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Natural Selection.
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 37 of 243 (347382)
09-07-2006 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CDarwin
09-05-2006 9:36 PM


I come across Gay people that tell me that Evolution invented gay people to cure over population. I tell them this is not how the process of Natural selection works.
N.S. ( natural selection) is not intelligent nore knowlegeable of the numbers of any life form on the planet. N.S. is the process of change and non change in a species. Evolution is the result of N.S. and is incapible of thinking out a solution to a given problem like over population.
But like the religious people I talk to the Gay community in Santa Monica seem to want to see evolution as a reason they exist.
It mat be correct that Homosexuality is genetic but yet unproven.
The evidence for a genetic component in homosexuality is pretty strong. Like all individual expressions of our species' potential, likely both nature and nurture play a role. Nonetheless, in the sense that evolution made us all what we are, they are correct: not in the teleological thrust of their argument, but in the basic premise that we should look to evolution to fully understand the phenomenon: many other animal species exhibit the same behavior, so there must be some evolutionary force at work.
Keep in mind that the individual is not the only arena in which evolution operates. Demographics show us that gays are more affluent than their otherwise statistically identical counterparts; cultural stereotypes suggest an affinity for the arts and other creative endeavors. It is reasonable to suspect that some level of incidence of homosexuality benefits the group.
Can there be an advantage to the community in a genetic constellation that contributes to both intelligent creativity and alternative sexuality? That seems like a reasonable hypothesis to me; is creativity liberated by freedom from the burden of procreation? As a father and grandfather, that also seems reasonable.
Tell them evolution made them what they are for their intrinsic worth, not to control overpopulation. Who wouldn't adore that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CDarwin, posted 09-05-2006 9:36 PM CDarwin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Silent H, posted 09-08-2006 11:37 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 38 of 243 (347388)
09-07-2006 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
09-06-2006 6:06 PM


Ringo writes:
riVeRraT writes:
Homophobe is fear of homosexuals, but then what do you call someone who is afraid of being called a homophobe?
riVeRraT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 09-06-2006 6:06 PM ringo has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 226 of 243 (414870)
08-06-2007 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Wounded King
08-06-2007 5:54 PM


Re: Arguments from science, not emotion
Hi, WK. You say:
quote:
The trade off between R, high fecundity, and K, lower fecundity higher parental investment, strategies can be seen all the way through the organismal spectrum even in a highly K species such as humans.
Then you conclude:
quote:
Humans are an R type species, but there are certainly a number of environmental condition where a more K like high fecundity strategy could be advantageous.
I don't understand how you got from A to B.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Wounded King, posted 08-06-2007 5:54 PM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Wounded King, posted 08-06-2007 7:57 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 228 of 243 (414885)
08-06-2007 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Wounded King
08-06-2007 7:57 PM


Re: Arguments from science, not emotion
Thanks, WK.
I in turn used my Wayback Machine to go back to just prior to my alleged first reading of your post.
There was no error--it never happened.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Wounded King, posted 08-06-2007 7:57 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 239 of 243 (415366)
08-09-2007 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Hyroglyphx
08-07-2007 5:45 PM


Re: Arguments from science, not emotion
Conclusion: Homosexuality is not a natural proclivity. But even in the event that it were, clearly they would be on the poorer side of natural selection, since they would, in essence, select themselves out of existence.
Individuals do not select themselves into or out of existence. The theory of evolution accounts for scenarios where the non-reproducing individual benefits the genes it carries: altruism, social insects, and, apparently, homosexuality. I'm sure there are more.
Many women disinclined to have sex have done so for the sake of having children--was that going against their nature?
So how natural is it for homosexuals to go against their own nature just to have children?
See above.
In practical terms, what would that mean for the child? Would, say, the straight woman divvy up the child's time between herself and the father?
Why do you assume the mother would be straight?

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-07-2007 5:45 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024