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Author
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Topic: Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men?
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 3 of 385 (695549)
04-07-2013 8:28 AM
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Would you, by any chance, be a Jehovah's Witness?
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 21 of 385 (695581)
04-08-2013 3:52 AM
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Just a general warning to all about our poster. He's posted these exact same posts on multiple threads under multiple names. As he has with his new proposed thread awaiting promotion. He's a troll, regularly banned from many threads. I doubt we'll get any further with him than any other forum ever has.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 187 of 385 (696443)
04-16-2013 5:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 186 by Faith
04-16-2013 5:21 AM
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Re: The OT prophesied the Messiah to be Jehovah God
Faith writes: You said you expect the Bible to be clear, I said oh but it isn't, it is veiled. I went on to quote Pascal who suggests that it is unclear ONLY to unbelievers and those who are looking for a way to find fault with it. Unclear is unclear Faith, and veiled normally means hidden. If the veil is only lifted and the bible becomes clear only once you believe in it, it's rather useless to those who have found no prior cause to believe. It's also a perfectly circular argument - 'believe in it, and it will make sense'. Your belief in the bible as literal truth has lead you to believe in a whole pack of total nonsense about geology, biology and physics. These sciences contain objective, unveiled, and clear facts about our world which do not require belief. It's an odd book that forces you to believe untruths.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by Faith, posted 04-16-2013 5:21 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 188 by Faith, posted 04-16-2013 5:58 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 189 of 385 (696445)
04-16-2013 6:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
04-16-2013 5:58 AM
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Re: The OT prophesied the Messiah to be Jehovah God
Faith writes: Everything is an endless argument here. Well yes, that's rather the point of the place
Yes "hidden" but not hidden from everybody, only from those who nitpick everything. That makes less sense than usual - it's either hidden or not, clear or not. it's objectively unclear. If I believe in Harry Potter, it doesn't make the story anything more than a story; it just means I'm delusional.
Yes, it is useless to those who have found no reason to believe. So much for spreading the Word of God. It's not fit for its supposed purpose. That seems like a very un-Godlike thing to do.
See, you don't even know your judgment is flawed about Old Earth Geology and everything else having to do with the unobservable past. What unbelievable chutzpah that you think you can know such unknowables with such a misguided sense of certainty. The untruth is on your side. This is truly weird stuff - I doubt I'll ever understand how a modern person can hide from reality in this way.
Oh well. Indeed.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 188 by Faith, posted 04-16-2013 5:58 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 192 by Faith, posted 04-16-2013 11:08 AM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 214 of 385 (696586)
04-17-2013 4:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
04-17-2013 3:40 AM
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Re: Without the WRITTEN WORD one has but human made up nonsense
Doesn't it give you any pause for thought that your insistence of reading the bible literally causes you to deny pretty much all science AND a straight reading of the bible itself?
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by Faith, posted 04-17-2013 3:40 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 215 by Faith, posted 04-17-2013 5:57 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 216 of 385 (696590)
04-17-2013 6:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 215 by Faith
04-17-2013 5:57 AM
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Re: The Bible and TRUE Science are compatible
Faith writes: I have no idea what you mean about my supposedly denying a "straight reading of the Bible" since that's exactly what I believe I'm doing. I totally understand that you believe that you are right - my question was whether it caused you any pause for thought. It's not only the entirety of science that's against you (and yes it IS the entirety of the sciences because none of it makes any sense on a young earth basis) but also the majority of Christians disagree with your understanding of the the Bible too. (As shown to you here.)
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 215 by Faith, posted 04-17-2013 5:57 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 231 of 385 (696678)
04-18-2013 3:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 230 by Faith
04-18-2013 3:20 AM
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Re: The Fallacy of the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy
Faith writes: Perhaps you can enlighten me by explaining clearly how my defining Christians according to their historical characteristics amounts to a fallacy? Because it's just your own personal definition and it's a definition which excludes the vast majority of Christian groups, including the largest - Catholics.
How is it any more fallacious, say, than defining one variety of chickadee from another according to their distinguishing characteristics? It's more akin to saying that a tiger is not a felid (cat) because you're a lion and only lions can be felids. As far as the real world is concerned there are many sub-sects of Christian, of which your particular sect is but one. You can attempt to define yourself out, but in doing so, you commit the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 230 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 3:20 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 232 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 5:08 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 233 of 385 (696680)
04-18-2013 5:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
04-18-2013 5:08 AM
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Re: The Fallacy of the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy
Faith writes: Historically Christians have been known as "BIBLE BELIEVERS," that means those who think their own feelings trump the Bible are at least playing with heresy and may be over the line. The definition of Christian is not someone who believes in the bible: Christian (krschn) adj. 1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings. 3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike. 4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents. 5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane. n. 1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus Christian - definition of Christian by The Free Dictionary But of course, all Christians DO believe in the bible. They just don't believe in it the way you do. You just know that your opinion about everything is special and right - even though pretty much everyone on the planet disagrees with you from science to your religion. It's a weird place to be.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 232 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 5:08 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 235 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 11:48 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 238 of 385 (696709)
04-18-2013 12:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
04-18-2013 11:48 AM
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Re: The Fallacy of the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy
Faith writes: Your dictionary definition is sadly lacking. Then let's try the Wiki
Christianity (from the Ancient Greek: Χριστιανός Christianos[1] and the Latin suffix -itas) is a monotheistic[2] and Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in canonical gospels and other New Testament writings. Most adherents of the Christian faith, known as Christians, believe that Jesus is the Son of God, fully divine and fully human and the savior of humanity prophesied in the Old Testament. Consequentially, Christians commonly refer to Jesus as Christ or Messiah. So, not surprisingly, a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ.
What you call my "special" position, and my "sect" actually represents the MAJORITY of Christian churches. It's always been a bit of a puzzle to me why there are so many different Christian sects believing different things - some 30,000 apparently, but regardless of that, your particular belief is obviously not in a majority. The wiki has it as: Catholic 1.2bn Protestant 600-800m Eastern Orthodox 230m Anglican 85m Oriental Orthodox 82m Restorationism 0.6m Unitarian 0.6m I'm afraid I can't tell how many of the 600-800m Protestant sects you agree with - but you'll find the list here so you can establish the extent of your minority: List of Christian denominations by number of members - Wikipedia Of course, if you simply declare those denominations that you disagree with 'not true Scotsmen' you will have a 100% majority.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 235 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 11:48 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 240 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 1:19 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 244 of 385 (696742)
04-18-2013 2:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 240 by Faith
04-18-2013 1:19 PM
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Re: The Fallacy of the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy
Faith writes: Why don't you consult a Christian source instead of Wiki which gets all kinds of apostates and heretics to write its stuff? Which Christian source do you recommend? Presumably not a Catholic one? Do you see the problem? How about the Oxford English Dictionary? Definition of Christian adjective relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings: the Christian Church informal having qualities associated with Christians, especially those of decency, kindness, and fairness. noun a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity: a born-again Christian
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 240 by Faith, posted 04-18-2013 1:19 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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