|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Fundamentalism versus Critical Thinking | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
anastasia writes: And yes, critical thinking can lead to religion Impossible. Blind faith leads to religion. Thinking of any kind never led anyone to religion. Faith is an excuse for not thinking, and undergoing a process of self-delusion should not be confused with "critical thinking". Edited by bluegenes, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
anastasia writes: If you can prove to me that God does not exist, that there is nothing after death, that their is no purpose for our existance, and no good to strive for, I will be very satisfied with the claim that finding a religion that proposes to answer these questions in any other way, is indeed a process of self-delusion, and can never come from a person's analysis of themselves and what they have learned about the world. I cannot prove that fairies do not exist, or that Zeus does not exist, or that dragons do not exist, or that your God does not exist. But actively and positively believing in any of those things requires self-deception (whether you are "satisfied with the claim" or not). Theoretically, all of them might possibly exist, along with an infinite number of other magical entities that we could dream up. I used to know someone who believed in elves, and I can assure you that she had not arrived at the belief through a process of critical thought, but through the same kind of mental processes that lead people to religion. I repeat, critical thought does not lead anyone towards religion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
purpledawn writes: Following anyone blindly is not good.Using critical thinking, what evidence leads you to conclude that thinking of any kind never led anyone to religion? All religions require blind following. I'm using the word "thinking" as implying some kind of intelligent effort in the process, and I'm not including "faith" as an intelligent thought process.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
anastasia writes: I do not see any difference bewteen an atheist thinking critically and a believer thinking critically. The athesits seem to think that because they are not 'married' to any religion, that there will never be anyone who can think critically and be 'married'. I assure you, we have the option of divorce, just as you have the option of marriage. Point is, keep your options open. No critical thinker has the option of marriage to a religion. Religions require "FAITH", and faith is the greatest enemy of critical thought. If there is no evidence for the existence of elves, that does not prove their non-existence, but a critical thinker would never actively believe in them unless or until there is evidence.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
purpledawn writes: You aren't providing any evidence for your position....So using your critical thinking skills, show evidence that has lead you to conclude that intelligent effort never led anyone to religion Without evidence a skeptic can fly just as blindly. Have you provided "evidence" for yours? Religions require blind faith, not intelligent effort. People who think critically (on this subject) would never come to the conclusion that any of the existing religions in the world are true. It is not intelligent to actively believe in something for which there is absolute zero evidence.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Phat writes: I will admit that orthodox Christian beliefs are all based on faith and not facts I think you're being honest, here, Phat, and it seems that we have some common ground. I'm trying to point out to others that religious faith has nothing to do with critical thinking. To point to your faith and "feelings" is honest.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
anastasia writes: I don't know if you are married or not, but getting married requires some critical thought...not always, that is the dumb kind, the pre-arranged marrige which is never questioned. But over-all, it is the same to say that a critical thinker will never marry anything, including atheism. Atheism - Wikipedia From Wiki:
quote: A good critical thinker, on the subject of Gods, would fit the nontheistic type of atheist (weak atheism). I'll stick my neck out, and claim that that would always be the case. Religious people and strong atheists cannot rationalize their views, and it's arguable that both require faith. Don't you think that the dumb arranged marriage that you mention might be a good analogy to people remaining in the religion of their childhood?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
I think pretty much everything is orientated around the "critical thinking" theme in relation to religion, even if we have strayed a bit from fundamentalism. I just put the link to Wiki in because there are problems with the definition(s) of atheism, with many people taking it to mean a "there cannot be Gods" attitude, which is the kind of statement that many of us wouldn't like to be associated with (Richard Dawkins, for example, included).
Mainly, Minnemooseus, I wanted to make the controversial claim that critical thinking in relation to religion, fundamentalist or otherwise, should lead to weak atheism or agnosticism, and see what reactions that would bring. If Phat's happy with the way his thread's going, then I think it's all fine so far!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
purpledawn writes: I consider blind faith to be that one believes what one is told without personal investigation. Given that meaning I feel that there can also be blind skepticism. People are capable of choosing to disbelieve without personal investigation just as well as one can choose to believe without personal investigation. Now I find it improbable that you have personally investigated every single religion to come to the conclusion that all religions require blind following. So now again and final time I ask what evidence did you carefully analyze and evaluate that lead you to conclude that thinking of any kind never led anyone to religion? Do, by all means, give me a list of religions that do not require blind faith, and I'll personally investigate every single one of them. It won't take me long, will it? "Believing" leads people to religions, not thinking. By what evidence did I carefully analyze all this? Observation of religious people, and their blatently obvious capacity to lie to thenselves. I'd suggest a trip to the Holy Land of Israel/Palestine if you disagree.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
purpledawn writes: To lie to themselves, they have to know the truth, therefore they are not blindly following Are you trying to make me laugh?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
Ringo writes: You've bought into the false dichotomy. Believing and thinking are not mutually exclusive. There is a limit to what we "know", about the origin of the universe, for example. There is a limit beyond which we can not "think". Everybody has a belief about what is beyond that limit. Really? What's mine? Everybody?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2506 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
You haven't told us. You're just expecting us to accept on faith that you don't have any blind beliefs.You're thinking like a fundamentalist about fundamentalists. I've no belief about how this universe came into existence. "Everybody has beliefs" statements are common amongst religious people. For all I know, the universe may have been created by seven Goddesses because they were bored in whatever might be the equivalent of a rainy Sunday afternoon in eternity, and they wanted to see what happened in black holes. The possibilities are infinite. Do you have an objection to honesty?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024