Summations Only

And as long as we are alive we can never answer that question so is it even important? Of course it is manufacturing evidence.Edited by jar, : hit submit instead of preview

Of course. It is a matter of faith or belief. It is the Christian faith not Christian absolute knowledge. Anybody can ride a donkey into Jerusalem. It doesn't prove anything. You used the example of a scientist. It is no different than a scientist making a claim in a scientific journal about some new theory he/she believes in. Jesus was laying claim to His theory that He was the Messiah.

Nonsense and utterly wrong.If a scientist made a claim and made up evidence, manufactured evidence then they would be fired.If Jesus had simply said "I am a messiah" then that would be comparable to making a claim in a scientific journal but you say he didn't; instead he provided evidence in the form of fulfilling a prophecy; making up evidence.

It isn't evidence it is a claim. I have never claimed otherwise. It was a statement about what He believed He was called to do. He was saying "I am the Messiah".

Jesus would have known without question even if it was through faith, because He knew God the Father intimately. You trivialize faith. The Gethsemane prayer, done in "great agony," should be taken as an indication that what He was facing was far worse than any other self sacrifice we could think of. He was dying for the sins of all of us, giving up His soul, and being forsaken by the Father which would have been an agony in itself for him. IMHO yours does.

But that is just you using NewSpeak.It was evidence since that was one of the signs listed as prophecy. It was no different than a scientist fudging the data or making data up to support his position.

Or maybe someone came up with a story years later about a guy that rode a donkey(actually it is a very muddled story that had him riding two donkeys)so that it could be said he fulfilled scripture. As there is no evidence that would probably be the most likely.

That's by far the most likely explaination.

This brings up the question as to whether Jesus knew everything that the Father knew.

Well the evidence says that Jesus was pretty intelligent and fairly well educated but there is no evidence that Jesus had any knowledge that would have been supernatural.

This bothers me. I suppose that in one context "evidence" is the only tool that can verify, but in matters of Faith/Belief I would argue that much of what *some* believers rely on in order to formulate their beliefs is subjective.You use logic, reason, and reality. I use these also, but I never look at the Bible simply as having a "God character" and a "Jesus character." The central tenet of my club is the belief that Jesus is living. Unlike some historical character brought back to life, Jesus is God.Now, you may have a point in seeing Him as human while on earth, so I suppose I cannot support an argument that He had divine foreknowledge at that time.

But what do the Bible stories say?Is there any evidence that Jesus had any knowledge beyond what might have been known by any educated man of the period?The issue is that you worship the Jesus and God that YOU create and not the Jesus or God that is shown in the Bible.AbE: There is little evidence that God has divine foreknowledge and there is evidence that God does not have foreknowledge.Edited by jar, : see AbE:

But why must we limit our belief to what is written? And what is so wrong about worshiping GOD as we imagine Him(and His Son) over what is limited to the books? I mean...how can you even begin to conceptualize GOD the Creator of all seen and unseen with a God that humans need to correct at time? Dont you see the disconnect?GOD may well be unknowable, but Jesus is no longer human and the ants have a spokesman to the Father.

What I see is you making up stuff that has no foundation other than your feel good needs.

My ideas and beliefs about GOD and Jesus are hardly unique. Moreover, just because something is written down makes it no less (or more) liable to be made up than is a verbal statement. So again I ask why anyone should take your ideas any more seriously than mine?(Specifically the idea that GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen being at one definition unknowable and on another definition schooled by humans.) Additionally you make the point that Jesus is no wiser than any other human of his era and that in fact we likely are wiser than him now....Perhaps this belongs in Faith/Belief so I will start a new topic if you would like.