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Author Topic:   Syria syrisouly?
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 19 of 50 (706097)
09-06-2013 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by 1.61803
09-03-2013 4:12 PM


Is this the best course of action?
I fail to see the point of how punishing an alleged murderer of his own people by killing more of his own people in the proper Christian western manner is any kind of a sane response.
If you where king for a day what would you suggest?
Given that this is a civil ware and there is literally no good guys to chose from, the best choice of actions would be a complete embargo, no weapons in or out. And then let them fight it out amongst themselves. Also humanitarian aid but in a way that makes sure that neither the terr... i mean rebels get any supplies nor the government, but that they are under UN controlll and available to the masses.
Personally I think is is rather...kind of weird.
Well alot of us policies are weird like supporting Saddam when he used chemical weapons to kill Iranians but then invading the country because he had said wmds.
Sort of like, well Junior you broke the rules so your going to have to stand for a whooping. But before I whoop your ass I need to discuss it with your momma. So stand by until we decide exactly what your punishment will be.
Well its more like one of you 19 kids played with the wrong toy so given that i saw Assad playing with something 90 minutes ago im going to punish him by braking some of his toys and i dont care what mom (the un) thinks.
Given the track record of the US telling the truth for the past 14 years or the track record of the US telling the truth about why they started a war well since its existence. And that Assad had UN inspectors not far away from the attack site making the gas attack an insane move by him i kind of doubt that he was the one who used the gas.
That and combined with the desperation of the opposing forces, who have very dubious morals, and for the past while all they herd form the national community that the world will help if chemical weapons are used. Making them the more likely suspect.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by 1.61803, posted 09-03-2013 4:12 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by 1.61803, posted 09-06-2013 11:03 AM frako has replied
 Message 26 by gene90, posted 09-06-2013 11:35 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 27 of 50 (706130)
09-06-2013 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by 1.61803
09-06-2013 11:03 AM


President Putin...is that you?
LOL you got me
There is also alot of stuff on the net that cast doubt on Assad being the one who used the gas.
Like the news article of Dale Gavlak 20 year veteran reporter for the middle east: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack
Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack
There are videos made by the rebels that don cast them in a very nice light.
Exclaimer: Verry mature content people being killed, human harts eaten, bunnies gassed etc viewer discretion is advised.
And loads more like rebels being caught with sarin near the Turkish boarder ...
Now who do you think would gas those people a dictator who is winning the ware or those morally dubious rebels who are desperate for outside help.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by 1.61803, posted 09-06-2013 11:03 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by 1.61803, posted 09-06-2013 12:08 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 29 of 50 (706135)
09-06-2013 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by gene90
09-06-2013 11:35 AM


Ok think about it another way say that the tea party starts an armed revolution against the government demanding everything they stand for from creation being taught in school to a state religion to the execution of atheists. Then one day in that revolution someone films a gas attack in one of your cities then without any evidence on who did the attack the government or the rebels Europe china and Russia decide its time to act against your government that is killing people.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by gene90, posted 09-06-2013 11:35 AM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by gene90, posted 09-06-2013 12:47 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 30 of 50 (706136)
09-06-2013 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by 1.61803
09-06-2013 12:08 PM


Your information is dated.
Yea and the information your government gave um Assad shot some missiles then 90 minutes later we got reports of a gas attack. Equal to you farted yesterday something smells today in my house.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 33 of 50 (706153)
09-06-2013 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by gene90
09-06-2013 12:47 PM


Could the rebels have looted some goodies? Or been given them by outsiders? That seems plausible, but for me it's quite a way from there to probable.
A religious sect that lived on mount Fudji (a mix of Christianity, nostradamus and yoga LOL) in Japan got their hands on sarin and attacked the Tokyo subway. Killing 13 people and some 5000 had to go to the hospital. So its not rocket science. The US says some 1400 people where killed in Syria France says more like 240 LOL. but even the 1400 number is not that high because it would be hard for those that could be saved to get to a hospital while in Tokyo it would be much easier.
making sarin isnt that hard either according to the BBC report form 2003.
Also, even if Assad was winning, these rebel strongholds were in Damascus, very close to his seat of government, he would probably very much like them gone. And on occasions when WMDs have been used historically, they have not been used by a side that is losing.
Technically if the US dint use the bombs i doubt you could conquer Japan as it was in a state of all out ware every citizen would do its best to fight against us soldiers. But if asad did use the gas he is mad he knew Obama was crying dont go over the red line and that something was gonna happen if he gets caught. Now dont get me wrong i dont like Assad either i just doubt he was stupid enough to use the gas.
I agree with you that the rebels are not trustworthy. They've committed some pretty awful low-tech atrocities themselves, and often we could use "terrorist" and "rebel" interchangeably with these guys. Odd to be in a position where I favor attacking the person that I want to win the war.
Yea i dont like Assad either but he technically is the lesser of 19 evils LOL. The thing is if the US attacks in syria are what they claim to be just air strikes on Assad military installations and in the end they do help the rebels win the war. What do you think will happen to the minorities that where protected under Assad, you know Christians, sunits and the like.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by gene90, posted 09-06-2013 12:47 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by gene90, posted 09-06-2013 5:23 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 35 of 50 (706159)
09-06-2013 6:05 PM


Just on a side note the whole fuss about Sarin gas among politicians isnt because people die horribly on a mass scale thats just fhe food for the masses. The problem that ritch countries have with chemical weapons of that sort is that they are real cheap to make.
Look depleted uranium rounds and weapons based on depleted uranium ar far worse then sarin. Sure sarin kills alot of people in a short time, but depleted uranium rounds cause cancer, and deformations in the area for generations in effect killing more people it just takes them a long time to do it. But they are legal on the excuse that it isnt their primary purpose to kill people that way. By the same logic you could make a rocket propelled grande that uses compressed sarin gas as its propellant and gassing people that way would be legal.

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frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 36 of 50 (706161)
09-06-2013 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by gene90
09-06-2013 5:23 PM


This is true, and they made their gas themselves. But the Damascus attack took place outdoors and killed hundreds of people that were sleeping indoors. I don't claim to be an expert in this sort of thing but it appears to me that the scale of this attack implies the weapons used were of professional design and construction. If this were an amateur grade attack, it would probably implicate the rebels, however strange it may seem for them to attack themselves (it could have been an accidental release while they were making weapons). If these are military-grade weapons, then Assad is implicated but not proven guilty, as the rebels could have stolen such things in their civil war or been given them by outsiders.
The difference in available medical care in Tokyo vs. Damascus is a good point. The fact that many in Damascus were sleeping during the attack whereas those in Tokyo were able to react and flee probably also matters. But I'm not sure what it really means that 5,000 people were treated in Japan. Japan has a world-class health services and first responders, they probably treated or at least performed cursory physical examinations on everyone in the subway at the time of the attack, as a precaution. And certainly if we assume that all 5,000 of those were exposed but only 13 died, that is a less than 0.3% fatality rate which seems very, very low for a gas used in chemical warfare. So I don't think we have enough information to compare the two, not knowing how many people were actually exposed in Tokyo and not knowing the concentrations of the weapon used in Damascus.
Response time and the way its distributed is a highly important factor, as the people in Japan could leave the subway and get to fresh air it severely reduced their exposure as sarin is a heavy gas it stayed in the subway system rather then flow up. Anything up to moderate exposure can be treated if you are left untreated you have a good chance of dying. by respiratory system collapse. The symptoms of sarin can take hours to seconds to take effect depends on exposure. So given that the Syrian victims probably had hours to get to a hospital and Japan had an immediate response the different numbers of victims can be easily explained.
And we actually dont know the number of victims the US claims 1400 but France claims 240 given that your president is highly motivated to go to war its more plausible that your reports where fudged and not the French ones.
Given that there is so much doubt what really happened i dont think the right course is to go to ware before we at least get the UN results on what happened. And given that if it can be proved that Assad used the weapons the only "good" option would be to go full-scale via the UN and stop the fighting enable democratic elections (they should go better then iraq because only 30% in Syria are whaco fundamentalists. But given that that wont happen because china and Russia wouldnt let it happen. The best option is to lock down the country only let refugees leave, no one in no weapons in or out and let them sort it out amongst themselves.
P.s. Why dint Assad use VX instead of sarin its much more effective, but if he did i would seriously doubt the rebels used the gas, unless they stole it from Assad.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : P.s.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 38 of 50 (706170)
09-06-2013 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Dr Adequate
09-06-2013 7:30 PM


So your talking about when Denmark, Prussia, and Austria where fighting about to who do Schleswig and Holstein belong to?
I think that that is Americas motivation they want to steal Syria from the domain of china and Russia influence. Insuring that oil will for evermore be mostly sold in us dollars and with a bit of luck iran will help Syria if its attacked so it will be complatly sold in us $.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 39 of 50 (706178)
09-07-2013 10:53 AM


some more news from syria the rebels are such nice guys

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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frako
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 40 of 50 (706189)
09-07-2013 4:30 PM


for the religius part of this forum the pope says
no military solution says the pope.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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