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Author | Topic: Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Bill Nye has written a postmortem of his debate with Ken Ham. It's very interesting reading his insights into the preparation, debate and post debate process.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung |
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Isn't that the same article I linked to yesterday?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Faith writes: Christian enterprises have normally been tax-exempt so this situation with Ham is probably a shocking exception, and that's reason enough to challenge it. Except that this has nothing to do with tax exemption. Instead, it's about tax incentives that the state is now no longer going to pay to the park. But please, feel free to continue to toss random, irrelevant thoughts in from time to time to spice things up.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Faith writes: I'm not sure why they would require only Christian employees for any of that. As you yourself noted, there is no legitimate business reason to require that all the hot dog venders, and litter collectors, and bathroom cleaners be Christian. The only conclusion left is that they simply wish to discriminate against non-Christians in their hiring practices. Please, try to take a moment, sit back and consider this. Don't assume that just because it is a Christian run organization that it cannot have evil motives. If there is no legitimate business reason for hiring only Christians for non-apologetics positions, what other possible reason could there be, other than discrimination against non-Christians? If you can think of no other reason, and if you agree that discrimination against non-Christians in hiring for non-apologetics positions is wrong, then you may begin to understand why the state of Kentucky is no longer willing to subsidize this endeavor.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Faith writes: his unfortunately possibly justified fear of getting a bunch of hostile people like you on his staff who seek to undermine his project. Underlying this justification is the assumption that non-Christians would be more likely to undermine his project and Christians wouldn't. I see no basis to assume either of these things. I've seen plenty of Christians express great dismay over the way Ham represents Christianity. And, if I needed a job and someone were willing to pay me a decent wage to sell hotdogs to credulous buffoons, the last thing I would do is badmouth my employer. If you actually think about these things, you'd realize that proffered justifications for discriminatory behavior like these are usually based on fallacious assumptions about the actions of people the discriminator doesn't like. That's part of the reason why it's important to fight this kind of discrimination, to correct those kinds of misconceptions.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
I read all of your post before responding, so obviously it didn't.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Why are you so reluctant to ascribe a discriminatory motive to him? You yourself have been unable to imagine a rational and legitimate business related reason; what does that leave other than discrimination? Is it because he professes to be a Christian?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Faith writes: As I said, I can't see any reason for him to discriminate just for the sake of discriminating, Perhaps it comes a shock to you, but a lot of Christians have negative opinions of anyone who doesn't share their religion. (I don't mean to single out Christians, people of all different religious beliefs do that. It's just that the topic of this particular conversation happens to be Christian.) And, if you like, I'm sure I can find specific quotes from Ken Ham showing that he in fact has a negative opinion about non-Christians.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Faith writes: Apparently some atheist organizations barraged the governor to rescind the approval of the rebate. Any actual evidence of that? Or is this another unwarranted assumptionRidicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
And you chose to believe Ham, despite the fact that his statement is filled with known lies.
Curious.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Yes, it is written about Ham, but the only evidence supporting your assumption that atheist groups were behind it is a quote from Ham.
"The state granted its preliminary approval for the incentive. Only after the atheist groups objected and publicly attacked the state's preliminary approval, did the state renege on its commitment," Ham explained. "Our organization spent many months attempting to reason with state officials so that this lawsuit would not be necessary. However, the state was so insistent on treating our religious entity as a second-class citizen that we were simply left with no alternative but to proceed to court. This is that latest example of increasing government hostility toward religion in America, and it's certainly among the most blatant." We know for a fact that the state isn't treating AIG any differently from any other business seeking this kind of exemption, yet Ham insists it's being treated like a second class citizen. He claims it's an example of hostility toward religion, and we know it has nothing to do with religion. He implies that the state changed its stance on the exemption because groups objected, but we know that the reason the state denied the exemption is because Ham reneged on his previous promise that the park wouldn't discriminate in hiring based on religion. These are all lies from Ham, but you still believe his claim, unsupported by any evidence, that it was atheist groups that pressured the state.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Faith writes: But Christianity does not teach isolating ourselves from unbelievers in general, so there has to be a good reason for Ham to want only Christians working for the theme park. Here's another shock for you; not everybody uses the same flavor Christianity as you.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
You''re on a fool's errand. There is no contradiction that a True Believer can't rationalize away.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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FAith writes: I note that Barry Lynn got his education from a Jesuit university, Georgetown. For me that's enough said. But the point was whether or not it was an atheist organization. I understand you have doctrinal differences with Jesuits, but I'm sure you would agree that they aren't atheists.Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Or perhaps, even better yet, a pro-First Amendment organization.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung
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