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Author Topic:   Economics 101 - Evidence Based Decision Making
Jon
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 3 of 36 (760254)
06-19-2015 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by anglagard
06-19-2015 3:29 AM


Inequality & Growth
The greatest economic rate of growth in the USA occurred between 1945 and 1970. Coincidentally, this was also when the USA had the highest tax rates on the wealthiest individuals, indeed under Eisenhower as high as 91%. Recent developments since 1980 seem to indicate taxing people who actually work for a living at a greater rate than those rich parasites who destroy companies, offshore jobs, lay off workers, and buy politicians like both frequently buy prostitutes results in lower growth.
Yes, wealth inequality seems to be the greatest roadblock to economic growth.
quote:
Wikipedia on Economic Inequality:
According to International Monetary Fund economists, inequality in wealth and income is negatively correlated with subsequent economic growth. A strong demand for redistribution will occur in societies where much of the population does not have access to productive resources. Rational voters have to internalize this dynamic problem of social choice. 2013 Economics Nobel prize winner Robert J. Shiller said that rising inequality in the United States and elsewhere is the most important problem faced in the U.S. and elsewhere. High levels of inequality prevent not just economic prosperity, but also the quality of a country's institutions and high levels of education.
Berg and Ostry of the International Monetary Fund found that of the factors affecting the duration of growth spells in developed and developing countries, income equality is more beneficial than trade openness, sound political institutions, or foreign investment.

To add insult to injury, productivity of U.S. workers has been increasing (as we'd expect) but incomes have been immobile since around the 1970s:
(source: Income Inequality in the United States
The only conclusion to draw from all this is that the additional productivity has been going to the owner class for nearly the past half century; that the working class has not been compensated for a large share of their productivity.
And what do we call it when people are not compensated for the productivity of their labor?
Slavery of course.
The wealth inequality in the U.S. is not only economically stupid, but morally disgusting.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by anglagard, posted 06-19-2015 3:29 AM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 06-21-2015 2:37 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 36 (760420)
06-21-2015 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
06-21-2015 2:37 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
No, slavery is when you're not allowed to quit your job.
It's probably not worth it to argue over terminology, but there is a difference between forced labor for which you are properly compensated and forced labor for which you are not properly compensated.
In a general sense, pretty much all labor is 'forced', even outside of capitalism: work or starve.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 06-21-2015 2:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 06-22-2015 11:49 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 36 (760476)
06-22-2015 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
06-22-2015 11:49 AM


Re: Inequality & Growth
If you want to have a serious discussion, you should avoid saying things like, "This is murder!" when it isn't. Labour is not slavery, no matter how badly you are paid, as long as you are free to go and find another badly paid job. The topic title is not "Economics Jerry Springer Style".
Yes, ringo, this thread is about economics.
Economically there is no difference between a slave who receives compensation far below his productivity and a wage-earner who receives compensation far below his productivity.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 06-22-2015 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 06-22-2015 12:59 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 36 (760523)
06-22-2015 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
06-22-2015 12:59 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
The difference, of course, is that the wage-earner has competition for his job whereas the slave does not. The wage-earner is under-compensated because he can be replaced by somebody who's willing to work for less.
Not always the case. The wage-earner may be under-compensated for many reasons, not just because competition exists for his job.
Either way, the economic aspects of each are indistinguishable from one another.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 06-22-2015 12:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 06-23-2015 12:08 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 36 (760528)
06-22-2015 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
06-22-2015 4:32 PM


Re: from Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread (continued) - future costs of the Iraq Invasion, all Bush.
I'm curious how you explain this in your view of things.
And you might remain curious forever. Looks like mikechell has given up on EvC for good.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 06-22-2015 4:32 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by anglagard, posted 06-27-2015 12:37 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 36 (760595)
06-23-2015 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
06-23-2015 12:08 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
Whatever ringo. If you want to ignore the last two hundred some years of labor history, have at it.
Like I said, I'm not gonna argue about terminology.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 06-23-2015 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 12:06 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 36 (760762)
06-25-2015 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
06-25-2015 12:06 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
Did I use the term 'wage slave' or do you want to go back and actually read what I've written?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 12:06 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 12:39 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 36 (760768)
06-25-2015 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ringo
06-25-2015 12:39 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
C'mon, ringo; if I used the term 'wage slave' you would have quoted me using the term 'wage slave'.
You're just being funny now.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 12:39 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 1:05 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 36 (760779)
06-25-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
06-25-2015 1:05 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
Jon writes:
if I used the term 'wage slave' you would have quoted me using the term 'wage slave'.
I did.
You quoted me using the term 'slavery'. Yet 'wage slave' is a specific term with a specific meaning, and that meaning has not been a meaning I've intended in anything I've said.
So again, ringo, if I used the word 'wage slave' just point out where I did.
Or admit that the notion of 'wage slave' was something you injected into the discussion and have been trying to pass off as my argument: a strawman.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 1:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 1:22 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 36 (760783)
06-25-2015 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
06-25-2015 1:22 PM


Re: Inequality & Growth
Maybe you should just make your intention clearer.
Maybe if you don't think I'm being clear you can ask me to clarify instead of making shit up.
Where have I been unclear and how can I clarify?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 06-25-2015 1:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 06-26-2015 11:39 AM Jon has not replied

  
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