GDR writes:
Jesus contended that he was the Jewish messiah. As I understand it we know of about 15 other messianic movements of that era and with some of them having accomplished significant, although brief, military victories. Who, other than the odd historian knows about them today, let alone worship them?
We don't have anything he wrote, his followers were at the bottom of the social order in a small oppressed nation and had no influence in his life time outside of the Jewish world which had rejected Him.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, GDR. You eloquently describe Jesus' obscurity.
As you know, I don't believe Jesus was resurrected. It is difficult to experience frank incredulity and maintain a respectful tone, and I don't always succeed. I hope to do better.
Many of the folks I alluded to--"spiritual teachers, philosophers, kings, slaves, poets, generals, artists, dramatists"--are remembered, simply, because of their remarkable lives and achievements. Most of them claimed no miracles.
Jesus' personal history prior to crucifixion was already replete with signs and wonders, prophecies and miracles. He healed the sick and raised the dead; he cast out demons and fed a multitude with a few basketsful.
He did these things much more publicly than he rose. He gathered a following passionate enough to alarm both the Jewish and the Roman authorities.
Leaders of the 15 other messianic movements you refer to may have matched Jesus' way with the authorities, but I assume you don't think they performed the other supernatural acts I listed for Jesus. I suppose, if you believe they did, I can see why you think Jesus needed resurrection to close the deal with his disciples. But I don't think you believe that. Further, I'm sure you agree with me that the founders of other world religions did not rise from the dead, let alone perform many other miracles--yet they have millions of followers after a very long time indeed.
I initially responded to your post on this not because I reject your beliefs about Jesus' resurrection, but because I cannot believe that anyone capable of the pre-crucifixion miracles, performed before many witnesses, would be forgotten unless he rose from the dead to a few.
I don't see why your faith or theology would require you to believe in the necessity of resurrection to the survival of the Christian religion. It seems a superfluous limitation on both the power of God and the potency of Jesus' life and teaching.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.
"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence