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Author Topic:   The Geological Timescale is Fiction whose only reality is stacks of rock
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(1)
Message 1171 of 1257 (791502)
09-16-2016 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1170 by Dr Adequate
09-16-2016 12:54 AM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
Dr Adequate writes:

So, we are to posit a process dissimilar to Noah's Flood which still produces stacks of flat strata?

I'd like to lay out the main point more clearly, because I think the sarcasm of Message 1151 that introduced this part of the discussion may have obscured it. Please correct as necessary.

According to Faith, floods deposit flat strata. Mars has strata deposited in flat layers just like Earth, as shown in these images:

Therefore there must have been a global flood on Mars, but in Message 1153 Faith says:

Faith writes:

The strata on Mars don't look much like those on Earth, however.

In Message 1155 Glowby challenges Faith to describe how she is differentiating between Martian and terrestrial strata, and you challenge her statement in Message 1157, but Faith ignores Glowby and sidesteps you in her reply. You're now challenging her again, and I'd like to see Faith reply and directly address this issue.

Interesting side note: the top portion of the second image looks a lot like Siccar Point, here are images side-by-side:


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1170 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-16-2016 12:54 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1172 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 12:55 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
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Posts: 25816
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1172 of 1257 (791538)
09-16-2016 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1171 by Admin
09-16-2016 8:45 AM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
I don't really get what's interesting or important about this topic, but some answers:

First I wouldn't say that "floods," plural, lay down flat strata, just THE worldwide Flood of Noah. Perhaps floods in general also do so, I just don't know, they seem mostly to leave a lot of shapeless mud coating or burying everything in their path, in my experience.

Second, yes I think the Martian strata bear quite a bit of resemblance to those at Siccar Point, suggesting great erosion, which is visible on the Martian photos around all the strata in any case. Perhaps wind-caused? i mean it looks very dry.

I didn't see Glowby's post until now. Answer is Yes I think I could easily distinguish the strata of Mars from yhose of Earth, given a good selection of examples.

The main differences seem to be that the Martian strata seem to be all of one size and shape, and all of one sediment, not extensive thick layers such as we see on Earth, of different sediments.

Perhaps Mars had a planet-wide flood in the same period as Earth's.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1171 by Admin, posted 09-16-2016 8:45 AM Admin has acknowledged this reply

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 Message 1173 by Taq, posted 09-16-2016 2:11 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
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(1)
Message 1173 of 1257 (791545)
09-16-2016 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1172 by Faith
09-16-2016 12:55 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
Faith writes:

First I wouldn't say that "floods," plural, lay down flat strata, just THE worldwide Flood of Noah.

If these strata do not require a worldwide flood, then they aren't evidence for a worldwide flood, contrary to your claims.

I didn't see Glowby's post until now. Answer is Yes I think I could easily distinguish the strata of Mars from yhose of Earth, given a good selection of examples.

The main differences seem to be that the Martian strata seem to be all of one size and shape, and all of one sediment, not extensive thick layers such as we see on Earth, of different sediments.

Where is your evidence for this claim?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 12:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1174 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 2:53 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
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From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1174 of 1257 (791550)
09-16-2016 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by Taq
09-16-2016 2:11 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
The evidence is in the posted pictures. I described how they look to me. If you disagree I'm not going to argue with you.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by Taq, posted 09-16-2016 2:11 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1175 by Taq, posted 09-16-2016 3:03 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
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Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1175 of 1257 (791551)
09-16-2016 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1174 by Faith
09-16-2016 2:53 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
The evidence is in the posted pictures. I described how they look to me. If you disagree I'm not going to argue with you.

The posted pictures hardly cover 100 yards of view. How did you deduce from those photos that there all the sedimentary rocks on Mars are the same? How did you deduce that there are no thick sedimentary layers on Mars from those pictures? Look at this picture:

That looks pretty darn thick to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1174 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 2:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1176 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 3:06 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 25816
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1176 of 1257 (791553)
09-16-2016 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1175 by Taq
09-16-2016 3:03 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
You must not be talking about the strata in that pictur3e, which are almost completely buried in eroded sediment: They look like all the strata in those Martian pictures, all the same thickness, and not very thick.

You said something in the other post I forgot to answer about it being worldwide? Didn't I say I thought the Martian flood may also have been worldwide? Or am I not getting what you meant?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1175 by Taq, posted 09-16-2016 3:03 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1177 by Taq, posted 09-16-2016 3:56 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
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(2)
Message 1177 of 1257 (791554)
09-16-2016 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1176 by Faith
09-16-2016 3:06 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
Faith writes:

You must not be talking about the strata in that pictur3e, which are almost completely buried in eroded sediment: They look like all the strata in those Martian pictures, all the same thickness, and not very thick.

We already know that there are basalt and ash layers, so that falsifies your claims right away.

Second, those hills are hundreds of feet high. How is that not thick?

You said something in the other post I forgot to answer about it being worldwide? Didn't I say I thought the Martian flood may also have been worldwide? Or am I not getting what you meant?

We have sediments being formed over vast areas right now, right here on Earth. For example, there are vast limestone deposits being formed in the Caribbean right now. No global flood. How do you explain that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1176 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 3:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1178 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 6:39 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 25816
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1178 of 1257 (791558)
09-16-2016 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1177 by Taq
09-16-2016 3:56 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
Hundreds of feet is thick but that's the hill; the strata all look about the same thickness. What thickness for the individual strata then, about five feet maybe? Ten? Or you tell me.

I'm not making any "claims," Taq, I'm just responding to what has been said and the pictures that have been presented. I don't have a stake in any of this. It could be the result of a flood, or not; it could be all over the planet or not. It doesn't make any difference to me, I'm just describing what it looks like to me.

You say the strata are ash and basalt, so are all the strata volcanic, then? In that case the strata formation would be a situation more like Mt. St. Helens than a flood.

As for strata being formed in the Caribbean, I stick to the ones in the visible stratigraphic columns for whatever I say about strata.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1177 by Taq, posted 09-16-2016 3:56 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1179 by ringo, posted 09-17-2016 11:52 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 1181 by Admin, posted 09-18-2016 11:13 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
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From: frozen wasteland
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(1)
Message 1179 of 1257 (791591)
09-17-2016 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1178 by Faith
09-16-2016 6:39 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
Faith writes:

... the strata all look about the same thickness.


How would One Giant Flood cause a lot of layers of the same material and the same thickness? Wouldn't you expect One Giant Layer?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1178 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 6:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1180 by jar, posted 09-17-2016 12:02 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1184 by Pressie, posted 09-19-2016 6:58 AM ringo has responded

  
jar
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Message 1180 of 1257 (791593)
09-17-2016 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1179 by ringo
09-17-2016 11:52 AM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
ringo writes:

How would One Giant Flood cause a lot of layers of the same material and the same thickness? Wouldn't you expect One Giant Layer?

One giant layer with all the crap mixed up together.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1179 by ringo, posted 09-17-2016 11:52 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Admin
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(1)
Message 1181 of 1257 (791609)
09-18-2016 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1178 by Faith
09-16-2016 6:39 PM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
I was hoping Dr Adequate would return to the discussion about Martian strata, but since he hasn't I'd like to reintroduce what I thought was his main point.

According to your view of YEC principles, only the Flood could have deposited the stratigraphic layers we see on Earth. Obviously there was no Flood on Mars, so why does it have stratigraphic layers just like Earth does?

Dr Adequate's Martian strata issue was introduced as another way of making the point that the stratigraphic layers we find on Earth today were deposited in the distant past by the the same process of gradual erosion and sedimentation that we observe all around us today, that it is a continuous process that began on the early Earth and has never ended, that the strata are continuous from the early Earth up to the present, and that new strata will continue to be deposited on into the future.

Please, no replies to this message. Hopefully Taq and Dr Adequate will continue discussing this sub-topic with you.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1178 by Faith, posted 09-16-2016 6:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
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Posts: 25816
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1182 of 1257 (791615)
09-18-2016 5:27 PM


The Martian strata don't look much like Earth's, as I said, except to some extent similar to Siccar Point as Percy pointed out, due to the extreme erosion and splintery effect as a result. As I also said, they also look like they are made out of the same material and are all about the same thickness, which also differs from Earth's. They also are broken up into segments in a way Earth's strata aren't. From Taq's saying they are known to be of basalt and ash at least, I would suspect they are mostly volcanic, and for comparison I mentioned the rapid stratification of the material from the Mt. St. Helens eruption.
Replies to this message:
 Message 1183 by Pressie, posted 09-19-2016 6:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
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Posts: 1714
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1183 of 1257 (791627)
09-19-2016 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1182 by Faith
09-18-2016 5:27 PM


Faith writes:

The Martian strata don't look much like Earth's,...

Actually, those "strata" do look quite similar to quite a lot of "strata" found in the Beaufort-, Molteno-, Elliott- and Clarens Formations of the Karoo Sequence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1182 by Faith, posted 09-18-2016 5:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
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Posts: 1714
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 1184 of 1257 (791628)
09-19-2016 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1179 by ringo
09-17-2016 11:52 AM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
ringo writes:

How would One Giant Flood cause a lot of layers of the same material and the same thickness? Wouldn't you expect One Giant Layer?

One Flood would deposit a "layer" grading from course and big and huge at the bottom grading to very fine at the top. One layer grading from course at the bottom to fine at the top.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1179 by ringo, posted 09-17-2016 11:52 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1185 by ringo, posted 09-19-2016 11:51 AM Pressie has responded

    
ringo
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Posts: 13424
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1185 of 1257 (791636)
09-19-2016 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1184 by Pressie
09-19-2016 6:58 AM


Re: The Great Martian Flood
Pressie writes:

One Flood would deposit a "layer" grading from course and big and huge at the bottom grading to very fine at the top. One layer grading from course at the bottom to fine at the top.


But Faith has decreed that the Flood "would be different" from everything we've ever observed and every experiment we've ever done. Yet there was no violation of physical laws and no miracle.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1184 by Pressie, posted 09-19-2016 6:58 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1186 by edge, posted 09-19-2016 5:33 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1196 by Pressie, posted 09-20-2016 6:49 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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