Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 297 of 892 (793969)
11-07-2016 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by NoNukes
11-07-2016 12:54 PM


Re: Can the Republican Party Recover?
NoNukes writes:
At one point in history, the Republican party dominated through a coalition that included blacks and whites in a way that allowed them to dominate the politics of even the Southern states. That entire dynamic was kicked to the curb in the early 1970s, and what's left is a party that may have some life left but is seemingly on its last legs.
Bill Maher happened to make a really interesting observation. This is perhaps the first race in the modern era where neither candidate felt the need to tout their religious beliefs and affiliations. No debate question has asked how their religious faith will influence how they govern. No one has made the claim that God told them to run for office. There has hardly been a peep about the religious beliefs of either candidate.
Are we moving away from religiously driven politics? Are evangelical voters making up a smaller and smaller percentage of the populace? Will the influx of Hispanic Catholics change historic US culture that has been dominated by Protestantism?
Ultimately, isn't it strange that we will have had a women (probably) and black president in the modern era before we have a president who is a self professed atheist (although it could be argued that many presidents were not really believers)?
But in the end, the WASP party is really ticked off that they are quickly becoming the minority. This is why you see them trying to delegitimize elections, because they simply can't win majorities in national elections anymore. If their redistricting advantage ends with the new census, what will happen then?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by NoNukes, posted 11-07-2016 12:54 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Diomedes, posted 11-07-2016 3:29 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 298 of 892 (793970)
11-07-2016 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Phat
11-07-2016 12:44 PM


Re: Well, I did my part
Phat writes:
We surely live in bizarre times. The two party system has evolved to the point that it splits us...divides us as a nation.
Each election seemingly boils everything down to only two choices regarding our vote for every candidate, every position, and every amendment.
Is this healthy for US Politics??
I am going to timidly say yes. There is simply no current political tradition of coalition building in US politics. I don't think people would react well to their party compromising on certain issues in order to form a coalition with another party. People are also not used to a party who rules by plurality instead of by majority.
The real problem appears to be a lack of civility and tribalism. I may have shared this before, but I often go back to an early Tea Party rally (the forerunner of Trump rallies) where someone got up in front of the crowd and asked how many people earned less than 150k per year. A lot of people raised their hand. He then asked if people making less than 150k a year should get a tax break. A lot of them cheered. The man then said, "Well, Obama is going to give you a tax break." They booed. They booed when a Democratic president wanted to do the very thing they wanted. You can't get more dysfunctional than that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Phat, posted 11-07-2016 12:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 342 of 892 (794058)
11-09-2016 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 337 by Diomedes
11-09-2016 9:07 AM


Re: The Clinton Failure
Diomedes writes:
But the big takeaway here is the Democratic party grossly underestimating how disenfranchised people in the rust belt have been feeling for a long time now. They watched their net worth evaporate as jobs were shipped overseas. And to add insult to injury, many got devastated in the wake of the financial crisis.
Then why did those same people vote for a guy who sent jobs overseas? That's what many of us are shaking our heads at.
One little sidebar: if I was an incumbent politician in Germany or France, I would be shitting my pants right now. Between our election and Brexit, there is now a ground swell of populism sweeping through the world. Merkel is not doing well in Germany and the far right party in France is gaining ground. The results of Brexit and our election could be just the catalyst they need to sweep into victory.
Marine Le Pen has already started to use this outcome to bolster her chances. Now everyone will say there is 'no chance' of her winning. Well, we said that about Brexit. We said that about Trump. Is anything not possible at this stage?
Nativist inclinations exist in Europe just like they exist in the US. I think you are right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Diomedes, posted 11-09-2016 9:07 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 363 of 892 (794089)
11-09-2016 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by 1.61803
11-09-2016 10:58 AM


1.61803 writes:
They would of elected a monkey other than any established politician I think.
Then why did they re-elect almost every incumbent Republican running for Congress? They even re-elected Blunt in Missouri whose kids are famous lobbyists, for crying out loud. He is as establishment as it gets. If there is a monster in the swamp, its Blunt.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by 1.61803, posted 11-09-2016 10:58 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by 1.61803, posted 11-10-2016 9:43 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 364 of 892 (794091)
11-09-2016 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by dronestar
11-09-2016 2:55 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
dronestar writes:
IF a foreign politician voted to murder your children and parents based on lies, a crime of aggression, would YOU think that person would make a credible potential president?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by dronestar, posted 11-09-2016 2:55 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 387 of 892 (794139)
11-10-2016 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 381 by 1.61803
11-10-2016 9:43 AM


1.61803 writes:
Perhaps folks just voting a straight Republican ticket.
That's my conclusion as well. The most well established and most prominent Republican, Paul Ryan, was easily re-elected in Wisconsin, one of the states that supposedly "voted against the establishment". I call hooey on the claim it was an anti-establishment vote. It was a vote for a change in party, but not a vote for some existential change in politics as a whole. This makes much more sense given the history of parties having difficulty being elected into the White House after 2 terms in power.
What I also think is happening is that they are using the "outsider" tag to mask something much darker. People didn't like Trump because he was an outsider. They liked him because of the dog whistles he was all too eager to blow. His rhetoric was xenophobic, nativist, and nationalist. That's what they liked. Even if we all know that a lot of it is just hyperbole that no one thinks he will follow through on, he still displays the same disdain that his voters have. If a rank-and-file Republican had used the same rhetoric he would have had the same success.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by 1.61803, posted 11-10-2016 9:43 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 388 of 892 (794140)
11-10-2016 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by 1.61803
11-10-2016 9:48 AM


1.61803 writes:
It is not Trump so much but freaken Pence that worries me. Trumps a egotistical load of hot air....but Pence? Pence is a koolaid drinking believer.
Pence is stridently Pro-Life. My hope is that the next 4 years will shut the door on Pro-Life rhetoric. We all know that voting to ban abortions is political suicide for the party as a whole. I highly, highly doubt that they will bring an abortion ban forth in the in next 4 years even though they have control of all 3 branches of government. If they fail to even try and ban abortions, we can all claim quite loudly that even if they claim they are Pro-Life, they really aren't. If elected, they will never put forth an abortion ban and we all know it.
Quite frankly, I think Democrats should just get out of their way. Don't filibuster anything. Republicans have been talking big for a decade now about what they would do, a lot of which is little more than rhetoric. When they are actually in the position to vote for their own bullshit it will produce two options. One, they end up not voting for it, allowing us to move past their rhetoric and towards more sane legislation. Two, they do vote for it and Democrats run against them using their vote against them. We may have to put up with same crap legislation for a little while, but it might come out for the positive in the long term.
For a little context, I consider all of this the bargaining stage in my movement through the 5 stages of grief.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by 1.61803, posted 11-10-2016 9:48 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2016 11:59 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 481 of 892 (794848)
11-29-2016 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 478 by Coyote
11-29-2016 11:46 AM


Re: Election Fraud 2016
Coyote writes:
Disagreeing with the left, and failing to do things their way, is not a sign of mental illness nor is it a "high crime and misdemeanor."
Wanting to carpet bomb civilians and water board prisoners goes beyond "disagreeing with the left".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Coyote, posted 11-29-2016 11:46 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 11-29-2016 3:06 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 489 of 892 (794857)
11-30-2016 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
11-29-2016 3:06 PM


Re: Any old lie to make Trump look bad, right?
Faith writes:
According to Politifact, Joe Biden misquoted Trump about carpet bombing. Trump never said anything about carpet bombing, only bombing oil fields, and specifically denied any implication of bombing civilians when that was insinuated.
I would knock the hell out of ISIS [and] when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families, the Republican presidential candidate said on Fox & Friends.
ISIS: Donald Trump Says He'd 'Take Out' Terrorists' Families | Time
Carpet bombing or no, he still wants to take out civilians.
We could also discuss his latest statement where he claimed that if someone burns the US flag that they should lose their citizenship. That isn't a disagreement with the left, that is a disagreement with the US Constitution. You can't take someone's citizenship away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 11-29-2016 3:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by Faith, posted 11-30-2016 11:25 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(5)
Message 495 of 892 (794879)
11-30-2016 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Faith
11-30-2016 11:25 AM


Re: Any old lie to make Trump look bad, right?
Faith writes:
Obviously you've missed the news that Hillary called for punishing flag burners herself, a decade ago:
Where did Hillary ever threaten to take away citizenship? That's the part I was talking about.
So if he "takes out" civilians, impeach him already. I wish he'd restrain his rhetoric. He's not going to be able to do some of the things he might like to do. But the reason his supporters like him is that he cares about Americans whereas the Left is bent on destroying America. Everything you all say here is straight out of the Cultural Marxist agenda to kill America and Western Civilization.
1. You haven't shown that Trump cares about all Americans.
2. You haven't shown that the "Left" is bent on destroying America.
3. Liberals aren't communists. Those are two different things.
All you are doing is repeating propaganda without understanding a single word you say.
And most of it has to be trumped up against Trump. You won't believe the evidence that the violence at his rallies was provoked by the left, though it's about as good evidence as anybody gets for such things; you have to have ironclad evidence that millions of illegals and dead people voted for Hillary -- well, I do too, but meanwhile I recognize genuine sincerity when I see it and you guys have to make liars out of everybody who disagrees with you for no good reason. You ignore the fact that the violent protests are the Left's work, you make up excuses to rationalize away the evidence that has been produced. You WANT to be blind to the real agenda of the Left. The hatred of Trump is manufactorues by the Leftist propaganda machine. Not that he isn't guilty of shooting his mouth off at timesm, but they blow it all out of proportion and stir people up unnecessarily. AT LEAST HE CARES ABOUT US, you know, AMERICANS, which gollyl gee, you'd think would be the first obligation of the American President. Not something we could say for Obama, that's for sure, who has been selling us down the river for his entire presidency. Or for Hillary, who is just another tool of the puppetmasters of the Left such as Soros.
Just more unsupported rhetoric.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Faith, posted 11-30-2016 11:25 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 496 by NoNukes, posted 11-30-2016 2:53 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 497 of 892 (794881)
11-30-2016 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by NoNukes
11-30-2016 2:53 PM


Re: Any old lie to make Trump look bad, right?
NoNukes writes:
Massively understated. Are you British?
I am not British, but I do have a soft spot for British humor. I often judge people by their ability to either recognize or recite lines from the work of Monty Python. If you call a girl a watery tart, and she replies with something about giving you a sword, then you know she is a keeper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by NoNukes, posted 11-30-2016 2:53 PM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by ringo, posted 11-30-2016 3:58 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 501 of 892 (794887)
11-30-2016 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Modulous
11-30-2016 4:05 PM


Re: a funny tangent
Modulous writes:
Flying Circus references are 40 years old. It's so strange to hear Americans talk about it as if it was 'British humour'. I mean, it kind of is, but only in the same way that Lucille Ball or Laverne & Shirley is 'American humour'.
I also judge people by their ability to recognize or recite lines from "Young Frankenstein" which was released in 1974 (same year I was released by my mother). I consider "Young Frankenstein" and "Blazing Saddles" to be as representative of American humor as other more modern examples. Those movies still influence and inspire young American comedians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Modulous, posted 11-30-2016 4:05 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by Modulous, posted 11-30-2016 5:00 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 508 of 892 (794913)
12-01-2016 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 507 by Faith
12-01-2016 10:26 AM


Re: Election Fraud 2016 -- Michigan
Faith writes:
Both Republicans and Democrats have been guilty of election fraud in various elections. What has to be proved is that there was fraud in THIS presidential election and for which candidate. So far the main clues I've seen are to fraud by the Democrats.
What clues are those?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Faith, posted 12-01-2016 10:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 521 of 892 (794945)
12-02-2016 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by Faith
12-01-2016 7:52 PM


Re: The Militarization of everything
Faith writes:
Consider what's going on in Europe. THAT's the trend, not deporting illegals (as if that's the same thing as sending Jews to concenttration camps anyway. WHERE IS YOUR HEAD?) In Germany it's the German citizens who are being forced out of their homes so that the Muslim refugees can move in. In Italy -- have you seen that sad story and the video? A poor old guy who runs a small hotel has been forced to give it up to the Muslim refugees. THAT is what is on the agenda for America, if Hillary got elected. Obama has already started the trend, she would push it further.
America has been accepting refugees for decades now, in case you missed it. I had a good friend in college who was a Bosnian refugee. The city where I live has thousands of African refugees:
Boise, Idaho, A Global Home for Refugees
They have only enriched our community. No one is being forced out of their homes. Sorry, but all you are expressing is xenophobia. In the US, we are all immigrants except for the indigenous people who we continue to give the short end of the stick.
We aren't quite as vulnerable as the poor Europeans who have been disarmed for years and are easy prey to police action. If somehow they still manage to steal this election we could be seeing the growth of the Leftist police state, all rationalized as necessary to stop the fascist Right, which is an invention of Leftist lying strategies like Alinsky's rules all designed to vilify the opponent by hook or by crook. Hillary would have moved to take our guns away too. Then we too would be vulnerable to the police throwing us out of our houses and bringing in aliens. Boy have they got you brainwashed. When they come to get ME or any other right winger will you stand up for US?
For 8 years we heard how Obama was going to take away our guns. Did it ever happen? At this point, these claims are nothing more than lies meant to scare people on the right.
Also, I bet you are against the Black Lives Matter movement, even though it is a case of people fighting back against police action. Why is that? Is it just the wrong skin color?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Faith, posted 12-01-2016 7:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by herebedragons, posted 12-02-2016 12:29 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 12-02-2016 10:26 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 612 of 892 (795105)
12-06-2016 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 532 by Faith
12-02-2016 10:26 PM


Re: The Militarization of everything
Faith writes:
I have never said anything against LEGAL immigrants or refugees.
Yes, you have.
You guys can't say anything without insinuating racism or some other PC category, can you? It's got to be ad hominem, you can't treat opponents with respect. Boy have you been taught well. Is it possible to find fault with the Black Lives Matter protests just because they are violent, illegal, and trumped up by Leftists like Soros? Obviously not, any objections MUST be racist. That way you can shut up legitimate objections. And you don't even know you are just falling for tactics designed to produce destructive movements, vilify and blame people who don't deserve it.
I never said anything about racism. You are projecting.
You claimed that the "Leftist Police" were subjugating the American populace. I pointed to a movement that was fighting back against the misuse of power at the hands of police. Do you support it or not? Probably not, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Faith, posted 12-02-2016 10:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024