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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
RAZD
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Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 181 of 1311 (808504)
05-11-2017 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by CRR
05-11-2017 7:29 AM


... Should Christians just cave in and admit that Genesis is a myth? ...

The majority of Christians have. You are talking about fundamentalist sects, not all of Christianity.

But it's not just Christians that need adapt to reality, anyone that believes something that is at odds with the objective empirical evidence of reality, is delusional if they think reality will change magically to match their belief.

When the world went from the center of the universe to a planet orbiting a star in the far reaches of a galaxy in a universe filled with galaxies, with no discernible center ... Christianity adapted, the world didn't end.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 177 by CRR, posted 05-11-2017 7:29 AM CRR has not yet responded

  
jar
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Posts: 29756
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 182 of 1311 (808512)
05-11-2017 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by CRR
05-11-2017 8:55 AM


Re: Honest Christians should.
I'm sorry but what does that have to do with my response?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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vimesey
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Posts: 888
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 183 of 1311 (808517)
05-11-2017 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by CRR
05-11-2017 7:29 AM


Should Christians just cave in and admit that Genesis is a myth?

I know you have said that reference to this sentence is quote mining, and I'm not trying to misrepresent your position by quoting it myself. But it does raise an important point for me.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with someone believing that the Genesis story/flood story/other OT stories are correct, and that science must in some manner have it wrong. That's your right.

I also don't have trouble with children being taught those beliefs in Sunday school, or through other Church/Mosque/Temple routes, or through family upbringing. Again, for me, choosing to bring up your own children in your own faith is a matter for you (unless you try to train them to harm other people, of course).

Where I do get shirty, (not a typo - it's an English expression, meaning annoyed), is where people try to teach religion to children in schools and call it science; or try to alter or undermine science to add weight to their beliefs. The pursuit of knowledge and advancement is way too important to our future to endanger it in this or any other fashion.

Believe elements of science are wrong - that's your right, and I defend it - but not at the expense of undermining the incredible importance of maintaining the integrity of science.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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Taq
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Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 184 of 1311 (808521)
05-11-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by CRR
05-11-2017 7:29 AM


CRR writes:

Many people say that evolution is fact and that there is a mountain of evidence to prove it.

"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from apelike ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other, yet to be discovered."--Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"
http://wise.fau.edu/...es/knowing/gould_fact-and-theory.html

Should Christians just cave in and admit that Genesis is a myth?

Perhaps Christians should learn that myths were a common way of communicating truths in the ancient world.

This episode [Creation magazine Live] examines and refutes key evolution evidences such as:

I challenge you to pick one of those topics and start a thread on it. I can guarantee that none of them will stand up to scrutiny.


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Taq
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Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 185 of 1311 (808522)
05-11-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Dredge
05-11-2017 3:04 AM


Dredge writes:

"Evolutionary biology has been severely hampered by a speculative style of argument that records anatomy and ecology and then tries to construct historical or adaptive explanations for why this bone looked like that or why this creature lived here. These speculations have been charitably called "scenarios"; they are often more contemptuously, and rightly, labeled "stories". Scientists know that these tales are stories; unfortunately, they are presented in the professional literature, where they are taken too seriously and literally." - Stephen Jay Gould.
(Richard Ellis, Aquagenesis: The Origin and Evolution of LIfe in the Sea. Penguin Books, 2001, p.204)

That doesn't address what I wrote. I fully agree that biologists shouldn't speculate as to specific reasons why specific adaptations arose. That doesn't change the evidence that supports evolution and common ancestry.


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 186 of 1311 (808523)
05-11-2017 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Dredge
05-11-2017 2:39 AM


Re: The Age of the Earth
Dredge writes:

Dredge has no idea how old the earth is and Dredge believes that life on earth was created about 5778 years ago.

It is hubris that causes humans to believe that reality must conform to their beliefs.


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Dredge
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Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 187 of 1311 (808660)
05-12-2017 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Taq
05-11-2017 11:09 AM


Taq writes:

That doesn't address what I wrote.


You could have fooled me.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dredge
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Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 188 of 1311 (808661)
05-12-2017 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Taq
05-10-2017 10:43 AM


Taq writes:

Producing theories is what science is all about.

I think most scientists would agree that applying a theory to produce a practical use is more important to science than mere theorising.  

Your problem you live in a dreamworld of evolutionary theory (aka atheist theology).  When it comes to the real world and applied science, you've got absolutely nothing to offer and your theories are are useless as fairy tales.  All talk and no action - a typical Darwinist space-cadet, in other words.

I wonder which strand of theorectical science is more useless - Darwinism, String theory or Parallel Universes?

The bottom line is, biology doesn't need Darwinism - only atheists do.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


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Tangle
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Posts: 5234
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 189 of 1311 (808663)
05-12-2017 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Dredge
05-12-2017 5:03 AM


Your posts have reduced to ridiculous one line bumper stickers. It looks like you have nothing left to say. Why are you here?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Coyote
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Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 190 of 1311 (808687)
05-12-2017 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Dredge
05-12-2017 5:03 AM


The bottom line is, biology doesn't need Darwinism - only atheists do.

On the contrary--creationists absolutely need "Darwinism."

It gives them something to bitch and moan about...


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2017 5:03 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 191 of 1311 (808724)
05-12-2017 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Dredge
05-12-2017 4:58 AM


Dredge writes:

You could have fooled me.

You do appear to be easily fooled by creationist websites.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2017 4:58 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7272
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 192 of 1311 (808725)
05-12-2017 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Dredge
05-12-2017 5:03 AM


Dredge writes:

I think most scientists would agree that applying a theory to produce a practical use is more important to science than mere theorising.

That would be engineering, not science.

Do you know what the scientific method is? Can you describe it?

When it comes to the real world and applied science, you've got absolutely nothing to offer and your theories are are useless as fairy tales.

I already gave you a list of my posts where the theory of evolution was applied and proved to be useful. You can't even reply to them.

Also, you know nothing of what I do. I think you would be a bit embarrassed if you realized how much science I do apply in my work.

The bottom line is, biology doesn't need Darwinism - only atheists do.

Said by someone who knows nothing about biology.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2017 5:03 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 193 of 1311 (808846)
05-14-2017 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by vimesey
05-11-2017 10:51 AM


If children are taught that Darwinism is nonsense, they aren't missing out on anything, because biology doesn't need Darwinism; it's just an irrelevant atheist creation-story.  Darwinism doesn't advance any science in any way; and since it is only theorising, it doesn't qualify as true knowledge.  
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 676
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 194 of 1311 (808847)
05-14-2017 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by CRR
05-11-2017 7:29 AM


CRR, this is a miserly list - only sixteen suspect areas of evidence!  

I like the way some paleontologists  take a few bones and construct a entire creature out it - maybe even a "transitional". No doubt about it, evolutionists' devotion to scientific rigour is admirable. 


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 195 of 1311 (808876)
05-14-2017 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Dredge
05-14-2017 5:13 AM


Bones
I like the way some paleontologists take a few bones and construct a entire creature out it - maybe even a "transitional". No doubt about it, evolutionists' devotion to scientific rigour is admirable.

When you spend your whole career studying bones you can do things like that.

Sure, it amazes the rubes who don't know anything about bones, but that's just a fringe benefit!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Dredge, posted 05-14-2017 5:13 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Dredge, posted 05-16-2017 6:28 PM Coyote has responded

  
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