Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 88 (8857 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-18-2018 7:43 PM
202 online now:
jar (1 member, 201 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: rldawnca
Post Volume:
Total: 837,045 Year: 11,868/29,783 Month: 890/1,642 Week: 304/460 Day: 26/30 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev12
3
4Next
Author Topic:   Deliver Us From Evolution?: A Christian Biologist's In-Depth Look at the Evidence...
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3162
Joined: 05-02-2006


(3)
Message 31 of 55 (810721)
06-01-2017 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Davidjay
05-31-2017 12:13 PM


Re: Maybe Aaron has read how creationists are treated HERE
But then again, maybe Aaron has noticed how creationists are treated HERE....

Actually, creationists are treated extremely well here. For one thing, they are allowed to stay and to post.

Consider how non-creationists are treated on creationist and Christian forums. We very quickly find ourselves banned for no given reason. In some cases, we suddenly find it impossible to even connect to the forum anymore -- no explanation, no warning, no nothing.

What were our unpardonable transgressions? Pointing out that some creationist claim was false and proving it. Asking a creationist to please explain a claim that he had made. You know, attempting to have a normal discussion. Several other members have joined creationist and Christian forums and suffered abhorant mistreatment by the forum admins.

Please have the basic common decency (admittedly impossible for you "true Christians") of not playing the martyr in front of those who had actually suffered discrimination and even persecution. Yea, I know, that is completely lost on you; such are the wages of "true Christianity" (AKA, "you fucking hypocrites!").

The only reason you feel that you are being persecuted on this forum as compared to the creationist/"true Christian" forums you are used to is because on those other "forums" you are protected from anyone questioning anything that you baldly assert without any basis, whereas on this forum you are fully expected to have to support your assertions and to engage in discussion about them.

So you find it unfair that you actually have to try to support your assertions. Oh, waaaaaahhh!!!!

This applies to everybody here: if you have a point to make, then please make it, then be ready and willing to support it and to discuss it.

This ain't no creationist wading pool.

{ABE}

It is nice to say that everybody is equal on this forum, but that is not quite true. Creationists are held more equal than non-creationists.

The reason is because creationists do not last. They never have lasted. So however are we supposed to conduct any kind of dialogue with creationists if they continually disappear?

As a result, the Forum Gods, the Admins, routinely grant creationists far more leeway than they would ever deem to grant a mere mortal thinking person. You yourself are a prime example of this degree of latitude being granted you. And yet you persist in trying to bite the hand that feeds you. How sadly typical.

There is also another class of creationist, the honest ones. Don't worry about them; you have absolutely no inkling about them, since they are completely foreign to you. You see, they are seriously seeking truth.

I knew one such honest creationist, Merle Hertzler, on CompuServe back circa 1990. Most other creationists were absolutely horrible. I had actually arrived at the conclusion that the absolutely worst thing you could do to a creationist was to take his claims seriously and to then try to discuss them with him. Invariably, the reaction was extreme hostility, which naturally resulted in absolutely zero discussion of his claims. I finally came to understand that such reactions were because that creationist himself actually had no understanding of the claim he was repeating and so used hostility to mask his ignorance.

Merle was different. Unlike all other creationists I had encountered, he actually tried to engage in discussion. And he was willing to research questions put to him.

Merle arrived at CompuServe a confirmed creationist. Within a year, he found himself on the other side of the argument. You see, unlike other creationists, he was seeking the truth.

Edited by dwise1, : {ABE} -- Added By Edit


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Davidjay, posted 05-31-2017 12:13 PM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Davidjay, posted 06-01-2017 9:26 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 32 of 55 (810735)
06-01-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by dwise1
06-01-2017 2:24 AM


Re: Maybe Aaron has read how creationists are treated HERE
Yea, I would think you would need at least one creationist HERE to debate with and so you do try to retain one if possible.

As for churchy forums, Yes, agreed they are as bad as ***** *****. Churchies are the some of the most vile forums going, and their standards are lost when someone opposes them. I mean the religionists are the ones who banned Jesus and got HIM killed, as well as killing all His Prophets.

For no side wants to hear about the prophets of the Lord including HERE

Example Daniel and the exact mathematical timing of His Birth and 2nd Coming

Like HERE such exact prophecy is banned or disallowed. Evolutionists and churchies hate opposition..... and do what they can to get rid of it.

Pity Aaron fleed, or got scared off by you evolutionists. Pity, it would have been interesting.

Please as mntioned encourage him through direct emails or private messaging HEREIN.

Lets get this ball a rolling, tooo many old stale topics going ON. Lets get some life and love happenin'

Whoops I cant propose a topic, because they say ***** and *****. But I am told there is no ********* HEREIN.

Oh well, do what you can...

IJN

David


Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by dwise1, posted 06-01-2017 2:24 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Coyote, posted 06-01-2017 11:15 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 33 of 55 (810744)
06-01-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Davidjay
06-01-2017 9:26 AM


Re: Maybe Aaron has read how creationists are treated HERE
Yea, I would think you would need at least one creationist HERE to debate with and so you do try to retain one if possible.

We'd like to debate you but every time someone posts evidence that is inconvenient to your beliefs you just duck, dodge and weave.

I've been trying for over a month to get a meaningful response to my archaeological and genetic evidence that shows there was no flood at your "exact" date, but you seem to have no response.

Evidence wins again, eh?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Davidjay, posted 06-01-2017 9:26 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Davidjay, posted 06-01-2017 11:22 AM Coyote has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 34 of 55 (810745)
06-01-2017 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Coyote
06-01-2017 11:15 AM


Re: Maybe Aaron has read how creationists are treated HERE
Yes, evidence wins again..

SEE that thread....

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19410

And post your evidence if you some or any there, and NOT HERE

For HEREON it is obviously not on-topic for this thread.

This thread is about Aarons Book..

And he refuses to respond or answer, and we dont know exactly why. So lets make a concerted effort to encourage another creationist to have the courage to respond on this evolution discussion board.

Lets encourage him through emails, or even chide him for being so shy and bashful and afraid.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander....

Creationists have nothing to fear from o** o* c******* evolutionists. They haven;t got the intelligence or design capabilities to debate with creation, intelligence and design, let alone with the God of Creation.

Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.


Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Coyote, posted 06-01-2017 11:15 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by PaulK, posted 06-01-2017 11:27 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 36 by Coyote, posted 06-01-2017 11:43 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14230
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 35 of 55 (810747)
06-01-2017 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Davidjay
06-01-2017 11:22 AM


Re: Maybe Aaron has read how creationists are treated HERE
Well I am glad that you admit defeat.

However, Aaron is not a creationist and even if he were I would not condone harassing him.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Davidjay, posted 06-01-2017 11:22 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 36 of 55 (810754)
06-01-2017 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Davidjay
06-01-2017 11:22 AM


Re: Maybe Aaron has read how creationists are treated HERE
Davidjay writes:

Yes, evidence wins again..

SEE that thread....

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19410

And post your evidence if you some or any there, and NOT HERE

I posted my evidence there several times, starting at the beginning of the thread, post 3.

You ignored it, so I posted it again there and elsewhere. You continue to ignore that evidence.

You have made it clear by ducking, dodging, and weaving that you have no meaningful answer to my evidence, and that of other archaeologists.

Bluster, bombast and bullshit can't disprove our real-world evidence; your posts make it clear that's all you have.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Davidjay, posted 06-01-2017 11:22 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 55 (810774)
06-01-2017 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Delete
05-27-2017 10:28 PM


I am giving the ebook away for free until Tuesday, since this is my ministry and I want to get his book into as many hands as possible!

You ministry involves spamming the internet for book sales? Tsk tsk. Check yourself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Delete, posted 05-27-2017 10:28 PM Delete has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 6:18 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 38 of 55 (810922)
06-03-2017 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by New Cat's Eye
06-01-2017 1:28 PM


Finnally, finally I can agree on something Cats Eye wrote.... Finnally some truth, some clarity, some wisdom, some discernment.. its a MIRACLE

Cats Eye has finnally used his God Given and designed brain for a response that is reasonable and rational.

.You ministry involves spamming the internet for book sales? Tsk tsk. Check yourself.

I agree !!!!

Aaron, you failed in this case, unless you have a very good excuse for not defending or answering or clarifying your writings HERE. Otherwise, you have been duly chastised by even Cats Eye.

I mean Cat's Eye of all people......

It shows, any of us can sometimes be right ? Objectively speaking


Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-01-2017 1:28 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Davidjay, posted 06-04-2017 10:17 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 39 of 55 (811031)
06-04-2017 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Davidjay
06-03-2017 6:18 AM


Evolutionists have no answers
Aaron, you probably saw the former problems HEREIN rather than the latter ones, and just didnt want to waste your time.

But it would have been great to have you HERE, no matter how long you lasted.

Its good for the brain to realise, that evolution and evolutionists have no answers.

Onward Christian Soldiers

David

PS) Aaron was a spokesperson for his brother Moses, and in this case, this 'Aaron' is also a spokesperson for Moses true doctrine of CREATION as written by Moses in GENESIS. Nice correlation..... Aaron.


Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Davidjay, posted 06-03-2017 6:18 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Delete
Junior Member (Idle past 4 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 05-27-2017


(1)
Message 40 of 55 (813880)
07-01-2017 5:27 PM


Sorry for the long absense!
.

Edited by DeliverUsFromEvolution, : .


Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2017 1:24 AM Delete has not yet responded

    
Delete
Junior Member (Idle past 4 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 05-27-2017


(2)
Message 41 of 55 (813883)
07-01-2017 6:24 PM


Clarification on my beliefs
.

Edited by DeliverUsFromEvolution, : .


Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 07-01-2017 9:49 PM Delete has responded
 Message 43 by dwise1, posted 07-01-2017 10:58 PM Delete has responded
 Message 44 by dwise1, posted 07-01-2017 11:08 PM Delete has not yet responded
 Message 45 by dwise1, posted 07-01-2017 11:20 PM Delete has not yet responded
 Message 47 by nwr, posted 07-02-2017 10:15 PM Delete has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 29176
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 42 of 55 (813889)
07-01-2017 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Delete
07-01-2017 6:24 PM


Re: Clarification on my beliefs
I would like to read your book and bought it for my PC kindle but can't open it without an app that for some reason I can't get.

I see you have a book proving the Old Earth. From the Bible? Or just from science?

(Also, in what sense do you address everybody here as "brothers and sisters?" Most here are not Christians.)

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Delete, posted 07-01-2017 6:24 PM Delete has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Delete, posted 07-03-2017 9:25 PM Faith has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3162
Joined: 05-02-2006


Message 43 of 55 (813890)
07-01-2017 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Delete
07-01-2017 6:24 PM


Re: Clarification on my beliefs
Aaron, it turns out that you are precisely the type of person I've been talking about for decades.

Personal history first. In the early 1960's I had been attending a Christian church with our next-door neighbors, their daughter being 8 days younger than I. To this day, I still have no idea what denomination they belonged to -- currently, only their day-care facilities remain and are being used by the community college next-door. A church member took us to a Billy Graham show when I was about 10 or 11. I heard the calling and was baptized shortly thereafter. About a year after that, I decided that I needed to get serious about this Christian stuff, so I started reading the Bible on my own to learn what I was supposed to believe. Approaching that in a na´vely literalistic manner and with no mentor to help guide me, I very soon realized that I could not believe any of that stuff, so the only choice was for me to leave. Looking back, I assume that I had not even been able to get to Genesis 19 which tells of Lot's daughters getting him drunk and raping him, since I would assume that my adolescent mind would have remember that story.

Then half a decade later came the "Jesus Freak Movement", in which the burned-out hippies switched to being "Hooked on Jesus" (a very popular bumper sticker at the time). That caused local marginal fundamentalists' congregations to balloon to form the current mega-churches, such as our local one (Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel). My best friend's mother and other family members converted, so I became a kind of "fellow traveller". I learned what they had to teach and I became even more convinced that their s**t was far crazier and far more unbelievable than what I was encountering half a decade before.

During that time circa 1970, I encountered two creationist claims. One was about a living mollusc that had been radio-dated to be thousands of years old. At the time, I was just extremely skeptical of that claim, but a decade and a half later I was able to track down the source of that claim and learned that the false date was due to the "reservoir effect", which was presented in the actually cited article, so that creationist claim was completely and utterly false and deliberately deceptive. The other claim was the one about the NASA computer that found Joshua's Lost Day (see Dr. Allan H. Harvey's article, Thoughts on "Joshua's Long Day", which is one of many examples refuting that false claim). Even then, a full decade before computers entered our homes, I know that the magical powers that claim made about computers was completely bogus.

I migrated away from that community, married, enlisted in the US Air Force. Then a decade later, circa 1981, there was a creationist presentation given by Dr. Duane Gish at the local university. Since I had duty that night, I could not attend. However, it got me thinking that, since they were still around a decade later, then they might actually have something going for them. So I started looking into it and I immediately found that they still had nothing whatsoever.

My journey is described on my page, Why I Oppose Creation Science
(or, How I got to Here from There)
.

One of the things I discovered as a "fellow traveller" was patterns in their training materials. Chick Pubs labeled it as "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord" -- did Jesus lie, was he a lunatic, or was he Lord? Of course, the obvious omission was the basic question of whether such a person as "Jesus" ever existed and whether he had actually said those things.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Delete, posted 07-01-2017 6:24 PM Delete has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Delete, posted 07-03-2017 10:01 PM dwise1 has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3162
Joined: 05-02-2006


Message 44 of 55 (813892)
07-01-2017 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Delete
07-01-2017 6:24 PM


Re: Clarification on my beliefs
Please consider this link to another message I posted here: Message 81.

Basically, there is no inherent conflict between evolution and creation. Science describes how the physical universe works and creation tells us who created that physical universe. No conflict.

But when creationists try to dictate to God how He could have Created, well then, that is where all the trouble starts.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Delete, posted 07-01-2017 6:24 PM Delete has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3162
Joined: 05-02-2006


Message 45 of 55 (813895)
07-01-2017 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Delete
07-01-2017 6:24 PM


Re: Clarification on my beliefs
You describe precisely the problem that I see with creationist claims.

May I quote your post here?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Delete, posted 07-01-2017 6:24 PM Delete has not yet responded

    
Prev12
3
4Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018