The Tension of Faith

You may well have convinced yourself that you know. The challenge is in convincing us. Does this mean that if you believe (or *know* as you claim ) what God actually means that the argument is thus over? Does this mean that your beliefs, being traditional, are thus infallible? In other words are you claiming that God is authoritarian and absolute and those who understand His words are thus also authoritarian and absolute?My point is that you seem to be arguing that there is one correct belief. That being what God has said. Are you saying that over the years you have grown in knowledge and understanding to the point where you are beginning to understand Gods actions? This is also what I was taught--that Hell is the default option for people who wont accept God. Comments? Can you define what true Christianity is? Do you believe that there is only one interpretation of what true Christianity is? I agree that I too am responsible for the words that I write and for the message my posts send to others. As long as I am at this forum I have a responsibility to be as honest as I can. Often I fall short.

Some argue that all of us have violated one or more of the commandments and continue to do so. What will become of us?

Good point.Some would argue that everyone intrinsically knows the difference between right and wrong in that it is written on our heart but that we all fall short of carrying out our duty. Thus, The US can justify collateral damage and civilian casualties without calling our government murderers.Any individual or nation can justify whatever they choose to justify.The question is what GOD, if GOD exists (and of course I believe he does and IS ) would likely think of our justification. An authoritarian God may well smite us.
Jesus seems to always forgive us. Perhaps the question is what our responsibility is....to be authoritarians in Gods name or to be honest with ourselves and each other.

Remember Robin Rohans plays? I could see a scene now...It is a classroom. Faith is the teacher, while the rest of us at EvC are students.
Class has just started.FAITH: As all of you must know, I have been allowed to teach the truth based on Gods benevolent authoritarian nature through His Son, Jesus Christ. There will be no questions.PERCY: First of all, why am I in this class? I dont believe that Jesus even existed and the stories in our textbook are all lacking evidence. And why am I paying for this school, anyway?JAR: GOD if GOD exists likely expects us to run this class to the best of our ability, using logic, reason, and reality.FAITH: Oh but God has already told us how this all works. Lots of people know it. Lots and lots and lots and lots. And there is no "Us" jar. There is only God and He chose Me to teach you, poor leftists, how to think.*Her jaw is set, and she is almost ready to continue talking in ALL CAPS.*ringo raises his hand.FAITH: Put your hand down, mister. I smell leftist in you and I DONT like it!PHAT: Aw give him a break, Ma'am. Deep down I think he believes. He is just a contrarian.FAITH: I have records. He has shown me severe leftist tendencies and I plan on flunking him.PRINCIPAL TRUMP enters the room.TRUMP: At ease, students. I have a meeting with the thought police in five minutes, so I expect nothing fake to be taught in this classroom. We are planning on giving Roy Moore a raise and firing Al Franken.RINGO: Since when are the teachers expected to all wear Red?*The bell rings. Faith throws up her hands and stomps off. Phat tries to start up an argument with jar, the same one he tried yesterday and the day before.Scene Two, anyone? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

People tend to believe what they want to be true. I believe in God partly because I could never imagine a life without Him. I need Him and Want Him. Others disbelieve for the opposite reason. They may claim they would believe if they saw "evidence" but they likely would find new reasons to doubt. They don't want Him. The story of Jesus has made an impact on History, though some would argue that it's not good for everyone. I believe that the story was never designed to be evident. it was designed to touch hearts rather than convince minds. God knew that not everyone would believe. Jesus Christ provides us with Hope...not a free ticket to immortality and comfort. No, but it often misquotes him in context. Paul is only part of the story.
Christianity is the effect of the story. Everyone on earth was affected by the story. How each of us takes the story determines to a degree how we allow it to affect us.

I could and do. Even if somehow it was prioven that the stories were made up, I believe that the Hope is eternal as is the Spirit. Jesus lives through the Spirit within us. Nobody will ever likely find evidence of this Spirit for if they did, they would quantify and reduce its value. Belief was never designed to be verified by proof or by evidence.Belief is a free choice...not a safe bet based on evidence to support it.

Christianity is spread via shared hope. A common Spirit.People dont gather to watch fireworks based on evidence that gunpowder makes colorful explosions. They gather due to the belief that unity strengthens future hope. People dont usually gather or agree based on evidence. They voted for Trump, as an example, based on hope. The evidence is proving rather disappointing.

Oh so you are going with this analogy, eh? In that case, I would argue that Jesus was not here to put on a show or to drum up support for a religious movement. Paul is another issue. Perhaps people are called to make their own fireworks for the benefit of the cause...but if there is no money in it, few would be as fanatical as Paul was with no hope of an entitlement due to their efforts. These days kids are unimpressed with fireworks when they have special effects from the technology available. The problem is that we are an audience expecting to be entertained rather than rolling up our sleeves and helping others. I am guilty of this. Granted it was stupid but it was still hope.

This assumes that there is a right teaching distinct from all others. I have believed this to be true in the past but will throw the belief away for the purposes of this discussion.There may well only be one way to GOD, but you won't find it on TBN or the 700 club. You may successfully argue that it is found in the pages of the modern compilation of the books of the Bible, but critics here at EvC will test your character on this point and you won't be able to claim infallibility.

This is exactly what I was taught also. jar suggests that in order to sharpen my perspective, I should question it and even throw it away(suspend my belief) and examine it. My fundamentalist Christian friends urge me to be careful or I will commit the error found in 1 Timothy 4:1. My guess is that you likely agree with my friends.

Perhaps one of our sticking points revolves around the concept of evidence, the definition, and the idea that evidence is grounds for belief.That last point grinds on me for some reason. I always thought that belief was due to lack of evidence. as tangle may have said, if something is evident, it is a fact and not a belief.and nothing unevidenced is ever 100%.This reminds me of crashfrogs favorite argument...that Absence of Evidence is Evidence of Absence. I never agreed with that premise.

If so, we first need o define what The faith is.

In which case so is your proposal. The issue is that we dont know...not this fiction you propose that we have found evidence not to believe.

Sounds as if you agree with ringo in my ongoing argument that absence of evidence=probability of zero.Your logic would have God framed in the realm of the imaginary or impossible, apparently.My argument is that belief requires no evidence and is theoretically possible.The more people who share the belief, the more likely that the probability is not 0%. Right? Or am I committing a fallacy in my logic?

I think the issue is more an issue of intent rather than evidence. It would be nice to see some evidence of the intentions and motivations of the writers.That is the best evidence we will likely get.Who were the stories attempting to influence?What specifically was the goal of influence?Why were the stories adopted and carried down through Church History?