Christianity and the End Times

But that is most definitely NOT true Faith; in fact it is based on carefully ignoring most of what is actually written and taking lines out of context and comparing those lines taken out of context to other proof texts taken out of context.If it really was honest exegesis it would look at the passage within the context of that particular story and tradition.But it's not. It simply apologetics.

Actually it was the geeks.He also only supported only one sport saying "Take up Lacrosse and follow me!"

But Phat, in Genesis 2&3 it is the Serpent that tells the truth and the God who lies.And remember the author of John is not the author of Genesis 2&3 and is in fact revising the Jesus mythos.

But the issue Phat is what the Bible actually says.What folk believe is one thing but when it comes to what the Bible actually says the apologists play fast and loose with honesty, reality and facts.

Absolutely, they never thought Jesus would not return during their lifetime. It was not until the unknown author of 2 Peter that they had to admit that Jesus had simply been wrong and there would not be a second coming during the lifetime of any of the disciples and maybe never be a second coming.Thus was born the profession of Apologist.

Yes, you are an Apologist.It's easy making shit up and taking passages out of context.But you asked for my opinion which I provided and replied with your usual dogma which misrepresents the Bible, tries to change the subject and is just the usually carny spiel expected from the Christian Cult of Ignorance.But you also lie about me, I am bot an unbeliever but rather a Christian, just not a member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance and so I cxan be honest about what is actually written in the Bible and have no need to pervert it as you seem to have.

That is the true indictment of your Christian Cult of Ignorance. What someone believes is totally irrelevant to a discussion of what the Bible actually says, of what it actually written. You are simply presenting the same utter dishonesty shown in so many popular Bible versions where instead of simply presenting what really is written additional commentary, propaganda and editorializing are added to "explain" the dogma of that particular Chapter of Club Christian is trying to market.Any honest Christian will respond to your inane interrogation by admitting there is absolutely no evidence to support Jesus even living much less rising from the dead.You can believe Jesus lived, died and rose from the dead just like so many other characters found in the Bible stories as well as other myths and folk tales, but an honest Christian would also acknowledge it is simply a personal belief.Determining the topic of this thread though devolves to a discussion of what the Bible actually says (which requires no prior belief position) versus what you try to do, impose your beliefs on the Bible and take passages that might support your desired position out of context and add the commentary from the dogma of your Chapter of Club Christian.You can market.But so far you have not shown any ability or desire to actually address with any honesty what is actually written.

And everyone should have an axe to grind against placing faith ahead of evidence. Placing faith ahead of evidence is not ignorance but rather willful ignorance at best and utter dishonesty in many cases.Writers & authors do not provide evidence that Jesus never existed and in fact it would be impossible to provide evidence that Jesus never existed but they do, and do rightly, point out that there is no evidence outside the Bible stories that Jesus did exist. You need to re-read that paragraph in the context of your earlier paragraph. There is absolute conclusive evidence that the Bible was changed. One clear example is the long ending of Mark, from 16:9-20 is definitely missing from the earliest known copies of Mark. There is also the fact that the earliest known copies of John do not contain the inserted part between 7:53 and 8:11; some of the most often quoted material from John.

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53 And every man went unto his own house.

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8 Jesus went abunto the mount of Olives. 2 And bearly in the morning he came again bcinto the temple, and all the people came unto him; and che sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such eshould be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, llet him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

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There is also the additional absolute evidence that there is no such thing as "The Bible" but rather a whole family of Canons ranging from Bibles that contain only the first five books to ones with over eighty books.When you add in the absolute evidence found in the Bible itself of multiple distinct and mutually exclusive accounts of the same event it is clear that the Bible evolved, that it and the stories in it did change over time.There is no better description of willful ignorance than being unimpressed with evidence.

As an honest Christian I understand that the statement "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is factually wrong. In fact both of the creation myths found in Genesis are factually wrong and simply the result of the ignorance of the authors.It is not a matter of what anyone wants but rather a conclusion based on all of the evidence available.

LOLClassic example of your utter dishonesty. The earth is younger than much of the rest of this universe.But wait, there is more to the creation myths than just Gen 1:1.Genesis 1 goes on to talk about other stuff getting created and almost all of the things specified are factually wrong.Even the heavens (something for which there is no evidence but let's pretend it refers to the visible objects seen at night from Earth) did not exist at the beginning but rather evolved over time.No honest person can take Gen 1:1 as being literally or factually true.

Exactly; you are fooling yourselves. If the facts actually exist as opposed to being asserted then that is willful ignorance at best. But what "asserted facts" are being discussed? What is an "asserted fact"?

ALL of the Apologists have an agenda by definition to support what they want to be true. The critics on the other hand simply ask "What does the evidence show" with no agenda or preconceived notion of what the correct answer should be.The problem is that you are NOT skeptical; you do not want all of the Apologists to be wrong.

Your utter dishonesty and misrepresentation is noted. You are just like the Witnesses; simply carny pitchmen.You can try to change the subject but all you are actually doing is once again perverting the Bible.You are quite frankly just another member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance and Dishonesty.

It was YOU who tried to change the subject and continue to simply lie yet again.from Message 1094

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LOL

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Classic example of your utter dishonesty.

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jaywill writes:

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Please publish your formula or observed evidence proving scientifically beyond any shadow of doubt that God did not create the heavens and the earth in the beginning.

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The earth is younger than much of the rest of this universe.

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But wait, there is more to the creation myths than just Gen 1:1.

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Genesis 1 goes on to talk about other stuff getting created and almost all of the things specified are factually wrong.

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Even the heavens (something for which there is no evidence but let's pretend it refers to the visible objects seen at night from Earth) did not exist at the beginning but rather evolved over time.

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No honest person can take Gen 1:1 as being literally or factually true.

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Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens & the Earth"The reality is that the Earth is younger than much in this universe and did NOT exist in the beginning.You trying to palm the pea, move the goal posts, con the rubes, sell your snake-oil does not change the fact that Genesis 1:1 is factually wrong.

Utter bullshit, misrepresentation, an attempt to change the subject, palm the pea and con the rubes from you jaywill.Genesis 1:1 says "1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."Note the word "beginning".First the term "the heaven" has no meaning and we can tell from the following verses that the heavens did not mean the sun or moon since they are created later. It might be the other stars but again, in reality the stars did not exist at the beginning.Second, in truth and reality the Earth did not exist at the beginning and most certainly did not exist before the sun.Therefore Genesis 1:1 (and all of Genesis 1) is factually incorrect.You can, as the Christian Cult if Ignorance and Dishonesty so often does, try to twist what is written to fit your dogma however the facts remain, Genesis 1:1 as well as all of Genesis 1 is factually false and is not true.It can be said to be an allegory, a poetic attempt to show God as a creator of all that is, but to assert that it is factual simply makes you look ignorant at best or dishonest.But Genesis 1 is all allegorical and its purpose is to explain the 6 day religious week and the 7^th. day as the Sabbath. God and the things created are simply plot devices to move through the cycle.