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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 316 of 948 (781398)
04-04-2016 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:46 PM


Re: Special Relativity
My objection is that you claim to know.
Yup, we do. We have mountains of supporting evidence. I've mentioned a few.
Your ignorance of why we make that claim is not proof or even an indication of its validity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:46 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 317 of 948 (781400)
04-04-2016 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:46 PM


Re: Special Relativity
quote:
Region? How would we know all of space away from earth did not have time as we know it here and in the same degree?
Why wouldn't we know ? We are observing what is out there. And we can see a lot of things. We have well-confirmed physical theories describing the relationship between time and space. If you want to reject that science you need more than your inability to imagine any refutation of your vague and nonsensical ideas.
quote:
something moved without time or with stretched out different time, how would we know here? If there just was not enough 'time' in far space to have a star take a lot of time to move, how would we know? My objection is that you claim to know. Just admit ignorance and be happy.
I suggest that you follow your own advice. Admit that you have no idea of the state of current science or the evidence. Accept that for all you know, your idea might be nothing more than crazy nonsense (at this point it IS)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:46 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:09 PM PaulK has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 318 of 948 (781402)
04-04-2016 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:48 PM


Relativity does not even address the issue of time does it? It looks at earth time and space and extrapolates, and assumes it applies all over.
Nope. As I posted in another thread, it makes predictions of what we would see if time as we know it exists throughout the universe. Those predictions have universally (heh!) been borne out.
If you want to propose that there's no time out there, you should not say anything until you have a theory that squares with millions of observations.
Bent light does not prove time exists in deep space by the way.
GR predicts the bending of light, and predicts time exists throughout the universe. If there is no time out there GR is horrendously wrong and there is no theory of what bends that light. What do you propose as a cause?

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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 319 of 948 (781403)
04-04-2016 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:49 PM


No. Of course GPS does not work where SN1987a is.
Having a little reading comprehension trouble? I never said anything about GPS working out there. GPS works here. If General Relativity is wrong, then GPS does not work on Earth.
Does GPS work on Earth?
Where's your theory of why GPS works? (The satellite clocks run slightly faster than they would on Earth, and without compensating for that GPS fixes would be way off).

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 Message 314 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:49 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 PM JonF has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 320 of 948 (781405)
04-04-2016 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:48 PM


quote:
Relativity does not even address the issue of time does it?
Odd that you missed the discussion of time dilation. Relativity very much addresses the issue of time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:48 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
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starlite
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 321 of 948 (781408)
04-04-2016 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by JonF
04-04-2016 1:53 PM


Re: Special Relativity
Nope. You don't. That was easy. The evidence you refer to is not able to stand. Not at all. It is religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 1:53 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 2:16 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 322 of 948 (781410)
04-04-2016 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by PaulK
04-04-2016 1:57 PM


Re: Special Relativity
You do not know because you do nothing but sit in your armchair on earth and look.The theories you allude to do not even address whether time exists as we know it there, they all assume and believe. Bad religion. Nothing more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by PaulK, posted 04-04-2016 1:57 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 323 of 948 (781411)
04-04-2016 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by starlite
04-04-2016 1:50 PM


Trigonometry involves using (as I already pointed out) time and space on and near earth
Time is not involved in trigonometry. If you are going to invoke some tremendous warping of space you are going to come up with a much more complex theory than the one you need but don't have.
The base line for your triangle HAS to be here!
No, actually for SN1987A it's out there. You really should not speak with such limited knowledge. I.e please stop [i]assuming/i about what you do not know.
You only assume that time as blended with our space represents reality where the star is
That conclusion (not assumption) is the only one we have that fits all the observations. Where's your explanation?
Decay is seen here too.
Yuppers. And the same rate of decay is seen hundreds of thousands of light-years away. Got an explanation for that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 1:50 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
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starlite
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 324 of 948 (781412)
04-04-2016 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 320 by PaulK
04-04-2016 2:05 PM


Not time away from earth where stars are.

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starlite
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 325 of 948 (781413)
04-04-2016 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by JonF
04-04-2016 2:02 PM


Relativity is relative! To earth and our quadrant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 2:02 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 2:22 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 326 of 948 (781414)
04-04-2016 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by JonF
04-04-2016 2:09 PM


Of course time is involved in a measure from earth where time exists. You kidding?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 2:09 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by JonF, posted 04-04-2016 2:24 PM starlite has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 327 of 948 (781417)
04-04-2016 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:08 PM


Re: Special Relativity
The evidence you refer to is not able to stand.
Don't tell me, let me guess. You are incapable of explaining why it does not stand, you are just sure it must because otherwise your fantasies would be wrong.
This is a science forum in which we introduce and critique evidence. I've mentioned some briefly and can go into much more detail were you going to actually discuss. If you want to discuss your religious beliefs (including your religious belief that mainstream science is a religion) please use one of the theology forums.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:08 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 328 of 948 (781419)
04-04-2016 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:10 PM


Not time away from earth where stars are.
Why? We have a theory, GR, and it works wonderfully well. We're not going to give it up unless a better theory that makes the same predictions about our observations comes along.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 329 of 948 (781421)
04-04-2016 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:11 PM


Relativity is relative! To earth and our quadrant.
Relativity describes our entire universe from the largest scale to almost the very smallest scale. It makes predictions and those predictions are borne out. If time and space were significantly different out there, those predictions would not be borne out.
You are quickly becoming boring. You have no clue of how to discuss science and evidence. Hint: repeated unsupported and downright silly assertions are not it. If you can't address the problems with your claims and present evidence for them you are in the wrong place. You should be on a YEC board like evolutionfairytale.com where you can get lots of agreement and no worries about your claims fitting reality.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 330 of 948 (781422)
04-04-2016 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:11 PM


Of course time is involved in a measure from earth where time exists. You kidding?
Well, the observation does involve the passage of time on Earth. But you seem to agree that time exists here. But the trigonometry arises strictly from geometrical observations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:11 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:32 PM JonF has replied

  
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