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Author Topic:   PROOF OF GOD
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 421 of 739 (122443)
07-06-2004 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by Gilgamesh
07-06-2004 5:12 AM


Claims Explanations
Gil:
I thank you for your objective first glance at my evidence.
I fully realize that when anyone claims to have Proof of God that most people assume crank stuff.
I have said in other topics that philosophically God cannot be proven or disproven - both sides of the debate recognize this fact. BUT the invisible asterisk on the pro-existence side is the Great Pyramid.
What some opponents claim to not understand is the connection to Divinity.
The Isaiah verses, which clearly speak about an object that sits in the center of Egypt and on the border thereof, an object that the verses say is a "witness" to the Lord is confirmed by the grand total of the hebrew numeric value of the verses which matches exactly the height of the Pyramid.
This means the object being spoken of in Isaiah is the Pyramid and that it was designed by the God of Isaiah as a "witness".
A witness to what ?
The message of the Bible.
The interior floor plan perfectly synmbolizes and typifies the claims of the Bible.
The first descending passageway is the type of mankind under the influence of Satan. (well known Bible claim)
That descent is only interrupted by the first ascending passage which typifies man's ascent under the terror of Mosaic Law, which only happened when a miracle deliverance from Egypt was empowered by God. This deliverance was only made possible by the Red Sea miracle typified by the plugs blocking the ascent.
The first ascending passage ENDS at precisely 33 AD the known date of Christ's death and Resurrection. At this precise date the ascent under Law ends and expands upward into the Grand Gallery, which typifies the age of grace/the Church by faith apart from the crouched ascent under Mosaic Law. The Bible clearly teaches/claims that Christ was the Law Incarnate and the jurisdiction of that Law ended when He died and rose. That's why the Grand Gallery expands upward symbolizing what Christ accomplished if we relate by the gospel/way of faith apart from Mosaic works.
That Grand Gallery expands upwards exactly 286.1 Pyramid inches which is the exact distance of the intentional error built within the Pyramid. The original door was located 286.1 PI to the "left" of center axis, which symbolizes the Biblical declaration of sin/going left. (nothing to do with politics) The intentional error is only corrected at Christ's death when that 286.1 PI is gotten back on center when the Grand Gallery expands upwards ! All this perfectly symbolizes what the Bible declares/claims and it is in stone and cannot be changed which defeats the eternal criticism that the original message of the Bible has been lost due to translation chicanery.
I could go on and on with the symbolism and the Biblical claims which are mirrored in the Pyramid.
The point, according to Dr. Scott, is that the Pyramid is God's anticipation to a scientific generation which rejects His written word. This physical structure will be God's great "I told you so."
The real tragedy is the gross misconceptions created by Fundementalist christianity which make the world at large believe that their version of Mosaic law are the prerequisites to knowing God.
The Pyramid confirms the gospel message of "faith alone" in that the Resurrection vaults you up from the pit through the well shaft (type of the Resurrection) into the Grand Gallery of His grace.
This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 07-06-2004 04:17 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Gilgamesh, posted 07-06-2004 5:12 AM Gilgamesh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by NosyNed, posted 07-06-2004 5:13 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 432 by Gilgamesh, posted 07-06-2004 9:17 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 422 of 739 (122447)
07-06-2004 5:12 PM


Well Shaft
Refer to a diagram of the interior passage system.
Find the Well Shaft which leads from just before the pit (type of hell) and leads up into the Grand Gallery.
The construction/drilling out of that shaft was commenced from the bottom going upwards. Nobody even remotely knows how this was accomplished. How can you bore upwards with such precision in lieu of the falling debris ? The markings on the sides of the shaft prove that the builders bore upwards.

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 423 of 739 (122448)
07-06-2004 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Cold Foreign Object
07-06-2004 4:54 PM


First Things First
Before you dive into the evidence we need to agree on several things. Otherwise you are wasting time.
Are the claims of post 400 what we are talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 4:54 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 5:21 PM NosyNed has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 424 of 739 (122452)
07-06-2004 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by NosyNed
07-06-2004 5:13 PM


Re: First Things First
No they are not.
I am just explaining whats at stake here because certain "debaters" like Wj came in at the end and said "I don't understand the connection to the God of the Bible" (semi-exact quote).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by NosyNed, posted 07-06-2004 5:13 PM NosyNed has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 425 of 739 (122453)
07-06-2004 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by NosyNed
07-04-2004 11:57 PM


Re: What consistutes falsification and what doesn't
Let me respond to this - forgot about it - coming right up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by NosyNed, posted 07-04-2004 11:57 PM NosyNed has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22508
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 426 of 739 (122462)
07-06-2004 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Cold Foreign Object
07-06-2004 3:46 PM


Re: Cancellation
WillowTree writes:
This means nobody can, after the fact, claim conclusively that my sources are in error UNLESS they explain the claims of the sources and then explain their refutation so I can understand it.
Skepticism would be a more appropriate position to take on matters whose substantiation you do not understand. People like Scott trust that there will always be people willing to accept without having to understand, and for whom a good story overcomes the need for evidence.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 3:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 6:49 PM Percy has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22508
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 427 of 739 (122468)
07-06-2004 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by Cold Foreign Object
07-06-2004 4:02 PM


Re: Prelim Assertions
Hi WillowTree,
I think you really want to provide the details about the rigorous measurement approach you mentioned. Annecdotal stories about "somebody a long time ago" or about "each course was measured" are not evidence.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 4:02 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 6:27 PM Percy has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 428 of 739 (122475)
07-06-2004 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by NosyNed
07-04-2004 11:57 PM


Re: What consistutes falsification and what doesn't
WT's claim is that there is something special about the great pyramid and it's location. In addtion, he claims that this is mysterious.
I have NEVER said or implied "mysterious".
Group I: (how "special" is the great pyramid and it's location)
1. The height of the Great Pryamid is 5449 sacred inches precisely.
2. The great pyramid is at the centre of the arc of the nile delta.
3. The great pyramid on the border between upper and lower Egypt.
4. The great pyramid (GP from now on) on the longest land meridian. (LLM)
5. The GP is on the longest land parallel. {LLP)
6. The GP is at the center of land mass ( I don't recall this being a claim in any of WT's sources. I think it is a mistake he made.)
7. The GP is at the center of land area.
8. The curvature of the faces of the GP matches the curvature of the earth when the radius of curvature of the GP is doubled.
All 8 are the claims of my sources.
Ancient Egypt DID NOT have the knowledge to accomplish such things.
The following is from a website that scoffs and denies all supernatural claims. Read it carefully. They ADMIT that Egyptians text does not match the genius of the Pyramid architecture. They conclude ANYWAY that Egyptians must of built it BECAUSE the alternative is the evidence and conclusions of the supernaturalists. The conclusions of this site simply assert Egyptians built the GP DESPITE all the contrary evidence (which they don't really touch on of course).
It is axiomatic - ancient humans did not possesss advanced mathematical and geometrical and astronomical knowledge comparable to present day. To say they did defies the obvious, common sense, and the evidence.
Modern day cranes are used to lift multi-ton objects. It is pure nonsense to say primitive humans could do so without machinery.
HOW did they optically cut mammoth blocks and cement them into position - vertically - all within a 50th of an inch ? How do you spread cement evenly - vertically - between two 20 ton blocks a 50th of an inch apart ? You cannot even get a penknife in between a 50th of an inch ! And nobody has the slightest idea of where the cement came from - a cement so strong that the blocks fracture upon stress and not the cement. Multiply this by the esimated 2.3 million blocks contained in the Pyramid.
It is nonsense to say camel riding egyptians knew this. It is evolution which has maintained that mankind slowly evolved step by tiny step. This "micro-burst" of super intelligence SMASHES the evolutionary scenario WHETHER EGYPTIANS BUILT IT OR NOT. Now, I will sit back and wait for the waffling and squirming and explanations which will account for this ultra-knowledge in evolutionary scenario.
From http://www.geoman.com/jim/pyramid.html
This excerpt is from a non-supernaturalist. I am posting the site because it gives an excellent complete overview of the history of the Pyramid. No one site agrees with any other. The purpose here is to establish that the Pyramid contains impossible evidence of knowledge that ancient egyptians/humans did not have YET the author arbitrarily concludes they must of built it anyway and somehow.
The boldface in the text evidences that Egyptian writings and the Pyramid's sophistication are incongruent.
This secular author concludes that priests concealed the secret know- how of which he admits there is no evidence.
EXCERPT:
Indeed, one could even devise a thought experiment in which it is assumed that the first rule among those who receive initiation into the highest knowledge is that the knowledge may not be written down explicitly. This knowledge might be maintained by an initiate priesthood who would continuously evaluate the trustworthiness of initiates, including pharaohs. The high priests might then initiate each individual only to the degree to which they demonstrated their capacity and dedication to maintaining the integrity of the secret. At first glance this may seem an absurd proposition, but it may fit the observed phenomena better than any other explanation. Particularly where we do already know that someone maintained a great deal of knowledge over the span of long intermediate periods between dynasties, which only flower during certain phases. Such a model might explain how, or why, the evidence we do find in texts is frequently inferior to the sophistication of the knowledge implicitly embodied in the geometry of the architecture. I am not arguing that this can actually be proven, or even that it is rigorously correct in all cases, but I do suspect that the depth and sophistication of all dynasties was not equal, and that this may be due in part to variations in the degree to which different pharaohs, or lines of pharaohs, inspired the confidence of the perennial priesthood who may well have been the seat of real knowledge. END EXCERPT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by NosyNed, posted 07-04-2004 11:57 PM NosyNed has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 429 of 739 (122476)
07-06-2004 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Percy
07-06-2004 5:57 PM


Re: Prelim Assertions
I agree, that is why I titled the post "Prelim Assertions".
When I reacquire the sources I will post as I previously said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Percy, posted 07-06-2004 5:57 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Percy, posted 07-06-2004 6:58 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 430 of 739 (122479)
07-06-2004 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by Percy
07-06-2004 5:46 PM


Re: Cancellation
People like Scott trust that there will always be people willing to accept without having to understand, and for whom a good story overcomes the need for evidence.
You could not be anymore misinformed about Dr. Scott.
HE CONSTANTLY disparages persons (like fundies) who are dogma-driven.
Dr. Scott always presents his evidence with sources and THEN challenges anyone to "go check me out".
Dr. Scott is all about evidence. His degree is a research degree and the atheists who "created" him taught him that "facts based on evidence and only facts will shape your conclusions". His educational records and achievements were only realized because his atheist professors recognized his devotion to "their" methods at determining truth.
Dr. Scott says IF any one thing about God's word could be proven wrong then he is off to be a beach bum and not waste his time with a God who will not back His word.
Just recently Dr. Scott has announced:
"The Shroud of Turin HAS NOW been irrefutably proven to be genuine....the image was scorched onto the cloth - three dimensional - one side only......"
That scorching was by a source being descibed as "heat/light". When the Holy Spirit blasted the dead body of Christ, He left that scorched photo of Christ on the cloth. All depictions of Christ are derived from the image on the cloth and I think it is amazing that God had a plan to give us a photograph of the most famous person to ever live (and still lives).
Just as soon as I obtain the research Dr. Scott mentioned I will post it and create a topic.
The point is Dr. Scott has finally spoken up for the Shroud being genuine based on evidence. I have never discovered Dr. Scott to be wrong, mistaken, or incorrect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Percy, posted 07-06-2004 5:46 PM Percy has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22508
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 431 of 739 (122481)
07-06-2004 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 429 by Cold Foreign Object
07-06-2004 6:27 PM


Re: Prelim Assertions
WillowTree writes:
I agree, that is why I titled the post "Prelim Assertions".
When I reacquire the sources I will post as I previously said.
Then there might have been very little need for you to post at all. I wouldn't have replied except I feared you would later claim you had posted the evidence and there was no rebuttal, so I wanted to be sure that it was clear to you that what you posted was not evidence.
My perception is, I think, the same as NosyNed's. Instead of taking this opportunity to begin a rigorous presentation of evidence, you are instead once again all over the place with annecdotal claims. You might consider waiting until your evidence is back in your hands before posting further. There are no time limit rules here.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 6:27 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 432 of 739 (122502)
07-06-2004 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Cold Foreign Object
07-06-2004 4:54 PM


Re: Claims Explanations
Hello Willow,
You have abused the praise and acknowledgement that I have given you by using your response to my post as another excuse to go off on another unsubstantiated speil about this Pyramidology stuff.
How about:
1) Providing us with the most commonly accepted Hebrew translation of the most common Bible and demonstrating the Gemantria for us. No dodgey, rare, tortured translations allowed.
If you get within a few metres (inches, whatever) of your magic 5449 inches of a proposed capless pyramid, I will be justifiably intrigued.
Remember that some numeric values of hebrew letters are as much as 400, so it wont take too many letters before your miles off the 5449 mark.
2) Convincing us why Isaiah 19:19, 20 even refers to the Egyptian Pyramids. Most Bible scholars believe that it does not. I already pointed out that the verse refers to an alter in the future tense, when the pyramids were already built when it was written. How do you explain that?
Remember that I also stated that the BBC produced a documentary re-enacted most of the major construction processes of the Pyramid, using ancient and very primitive technology.
Remember if this Pyramid claim does not stand up, it will be logged as yet another false Christian evidence of the supernatural.
This message has been edited by Gilgamesh, 07-06-2004 08:26 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 4:54 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 10:34 PM Gilgamesh has replied
 Message 435 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-06-2004 10:43 PM Gilgamesh has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 433 of 739 (122518)
07-06-2004 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Gilgamesh
07-06-2004 9:17 PM


Re: Claims Explanations
IIS 8.5 Detailed Error - 404.0 - Not Found
http://www.19x19lc.com/chapter05.htm
Gil:
I only posted a quick overview of my ultimate claims. IF the evidence posted is true THEN this in turn evidences the truth/claims of the overview.
About the links: just scroll down to the relevant stuff concerning the Isaiah text.
BTW, I have not forsaken our other debate. It's just that your atheist brothers have saved you by suspending me.
Are you not curious as to what is the acid proof that the Spirit dwells in a person ? - the one thing which cannot be faked ? (hint: its in the Bible)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Gilgamesh, posted 07-06-2004 9:17 PM Gilgamesh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Gilgamesh, posted 07-07-2004 1:02 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 434 of 739 (122520)
07-06-2004 10:39 PM


PERCY
Do I need web hosting in order to post pictures, diagrams, and text ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by AdminAsgara, posted 07-06-2004 10:50 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3078 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 435 of 739 (122523)
07-06-2004 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Gilgamesh
07-06-2004 9:17 PM


Re: Claims Explanations
Remember that I also stated that the BBC produced a documentary re-enacted most of the major construction processes of the Pyramid, using ancient and very primitive technology.
Absolute rubbish.
The only reason such SHOWS are produced IS BECAUSE nobody knows how it was constructed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Gilgamesh, posted 07-06-2004 9:17 PM Gilgamesh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 437 by jar, posted 07-06-2004 10:58 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 439 by Gilgamesh, posted 07-07-2004 1:10 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

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