atheism

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Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
Of course there are differences in opinion, but does opinion mean anything in relation to right and wrong? Should Hitlers views be regarded as the same as Mother Teresa's?

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Of course not. There are universal morals, whether or not an individual wants to recognize them makes no difference.

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Could you please quote a universal moral ?Morals are a product of society, they change as society and
situation change.People who are raised in a particular society may choose to
reject the morality of that society, but cannot be said to
be acting against the morals of another, to them, alien
society.Hitler's actions can be considered against morality because he
was raised in a culture founded in christian morality, which he
clearly broke.Is incest immoral (I'm not in favour of it myself I hasten to
add). It is illegal in the western world, and appears to be
regarded in the Bible as unacceptable, and yet it was normal
in Ancient Egypt to the extent that it wasn't even recognised
within the culture.What makes something MORAL ?It is a societal definition, not an absolute.

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Originally posted by Punisher:
You are getting to the root of my question which is this: How can an evolutionist believe in the validity of reason? How can time and chance acting on matter produce reason? If you see a chemical reaction, it doesn't occur to you to say that it is true or false, it just is. So, my Christian/creation beliefs are just a complex chemical reaction in my head. And your beliefs are simply a different chemical reaction. So why do you think my chemical reaction is false and yours is true.

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Because my chemical reaction has a mountain of supporting evidence
and yours ahs NO supporting evidence.

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Originally posted by Punisher:

It appears that atheist evolutionists borrow reason from theism to argue their case. For those who do not believe in God, the only consistent position is nihlism.

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Please explain more fully.

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Originally posted by Punisher:

Basically, anything goes. If we are the process of chemical reactions, then the strongest survive and absolute standards of right and wrong do not exist. Right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder. So, your atheism must rest on an unsupported presuppostion, not on a claim to reason.

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Not sure how the last sentence follows from the rest, but, yes
atheism is unsupported ... in the same way that belief in the
One God is unsupported.Atheism is a belief system founded in the same judeo-christain
culture as christianity.However, the belief in atheism (strange way to put it perhaps) stems
from a RATIONAL theological investigation. Most atheists come to
that belief through study ... the vast majority of beleivers (and I
say majority ... I'm not intending to generalise) come to
their belief through their upbringing and a culture of not questioning
what they are taught by their ministers, parents, etc.

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Originally posted by Darwin Storm:
I wasn't trying to invalidate christianity, just point out that christian faith isn't composed of universal morals. What has been morally acceptable has changed over time, and depends largely on the society in which you grow up ( my whole point about the incest issue is that at one time it was acceptable, but later it wasn't. This seems a change in morality to me.) Also, religious institutions , christian faiths among them, have misused the word of god to commit atrocious acts. While we can most probably agree, both the inquisition and the crusades were historical events that actually had political moves guised in religion. However, both had ardent supporters (both in of the cloth and not) who felt their heinous crimes were morally justified.

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This is a valid point, and I'd ask (again) for a UNIVERSAL MORAL.

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"I ask anyone to prove that there are universal moarals shared by anyone."
--Your allways going to have one culture or another or one person or another breaking one of the 10 commandments regularely, how is this relevant?

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The ten commandments are LAWS ... they are societally bound.The question is whether or not someone breaking one of the
ten commandments in a culture where the bahaviour
they exhibit is acceptable is acting immorally.That is::Suppose there is a culture where marriage exists, but having
extra-marital sex is acceptable. The adultery commandment
is being broken, but is NOT a recognised law within that society.Are people who act in this way immoral ?Example:: In old England, it was the RIGHT of the Lord of
the Manor to sleep with a bride before her husband ... was this
immoral even though it was law ?If laws are NOT related to morality ... what is ?