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Author Topic:   Is it right to preach to people?
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 70 (66878)
11-16-2003 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Brian
11-15-2003 6:23 PM


If someone is interested in a faith, or anything else for that matter, they can go and find out about it. But I feel that street preachers, or evangelists that go out and cold call at people's houses, should be stopped.
Whilst I don't like street preaching, I can't see anything wrong with knocking on someone's door and preaching to them. If they are not interested, so be it.
Saying 'Thanks, not interested' is not at all difficult. If they persist, so be it. In 2 years of living in London, I've only had 1 religious person coming to my door (Jehova's witness). No big deal. Perhaps they are all over the place somewhere else, but in 3 years, I might have had a chat with 3 random Christians (be it Tube/street).
I'm surprised you feel so strongly about this.
[This message has been edited by Zealot, 11-16-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Brian, posted 11-15-2003 6:23 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 11-16-2003 3:14 PM Zealot has replied

  
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 70 (67005)
11-17-2003 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Brian
11-16-2003 3:14 PM


I do feel strongly about this, in my opinion these people are keeping alive a fairytale that has no basis in fact, it is a severly flawed belief system that would have died out centuries ago if certain people didn't see how powerful a control mechanism it is. Generation after generation of children have been indoctrinated, psychologically abused by people forcing THEIR beliefs onto their children. Children are being suffocated with this nonsense before they have the capacity to make an informed choice, it is child abuse.
For someone with a 'demon child' as his avatar, you seem to be very sensitive to Christianity of any sort, but it seems you fail to show that sensitivity towards what might offend others. PS, you really do not HAVE to listen to what any Christians have to say! No thanks, I dont believe and close the door is simple enough.
"people forcing THEIR beliefs onto their children"
Bull. I can count on one hand ( indeed I need only use 2 fingers ) every one of my friends 'brought' up Christian that now still follow the faith. Christianity nowadays is somewhat of a novelty. Even in my Sunday School class, at which I had the worst attendance, I am likely the only one still practising the faith.
PS: I spent 3 years in High School learning about evolutionary biology. So much so that after school, I pretty much had a perfectly compatable evolutionary/christian belief system. That it takes a subscription to New Scientist and alot of research on evolution and the 'other side' of science for me to rethink what I once accepted, THAT is indoctrination. Was I taught string theory ? Did I know that Crick (admittedly an Athiest) adhered to a theory that
life was transplanted on earth by aliens, due to the complexity of DNA ? No.
Brian, all YOU have to do is close the door

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 11-16-2003 3:14 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 6:24 AM Zealot has replied
 Message 14 by NosyNed, posted 11-17-2003 10:46 AM Zealot has not replied

  
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 70 (67022)
11-17-2003 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Brian
11-17-2003 6:24 AM


Fair enough, they may just say, 'I am here to ask you if you have herad the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ', but they have still disturbed me, I have still had to stop doing what I was doing and go and answer the door. Then it may take me a little while to relax again and, especially if I was typing up some notes, I would need to regain my train of thought.
C'mon Brian. You have to get up, answer the door, listen to them say 2 sentences, then reply politely, "Im really just not interested", maby even add a smile and close the door. If this happens every day I can see it being annoying, but what lets max 4 times a year ?
Heck we had beggars come round our house every 2/3 days DEMANDING money, NOT food. That is annoying!
With respect, you are hardly representative of all of Xianity. Do you really think that this applies across the board, surely one example is more than enough to call it child abuse? Did Hovind's kids find Jesus accidently?
Use of extremes seems always an athiest tactic. Perhaps I can point out that the Columbine kids didn't have parental supervision, thus they are misinformed ? Anyone can choose once they are 16-18 what THEY want to believe in. I know children that simply didn't believe at age 7. Why dont we ban the idea of Santa Clause, as surely that is also indoctrination ? If you're good, you get nice presents, if not, a lump of coal! Don't know about you, but I sure believed in him until 8! Took me a day to stop believing though.
Yes Xianity is a novelty, it is a fantasy, yet how many people think that it is reality, how many think that we are all sinners and God killed himself so we can be saved? I know it is ludicrous, but many people think it is true and they are keeping this joke going by indoctrinating others, and often through exploitation.
What exploitation ? If people care to believe in evolutionary tales, aliens, Budha, or The Super Mario brothers, its their choice. Evolution STILL does not explain the origin of life, yet anything else that could explain the origin of life, you dont even want to hear about. Indeed, its offensive for them to 'indoctrinate' their children with their beliefs !
Christians can have a look at history, realise that a boat load of people that believed in Christ, willingly gave their lives for a faith that was outlawed, to be tortured by Nero and other emperors. They have many facts they can use to base their belief on Brian, so respect their decisions.
You have been indoctrinated with facts! I think you need to redefine your idea of indoctrination. I would agree if what you were taught was contradictory to the massive amount of evidence available, but it wasn't. You were not asked to blindly accept evolutionary by your teachers.
Facts ? It's a theory! And like any other highschool biology student will tell you , they had never even heard ANY opposing facts against evolution. Evolution is a given.
Xians do not encourage a critical approach to their faith by their children, that is indoctrination.
Children are constantly exposed to evolutionary tales. Difficult not to question your faith.
Is it not also indoctrination then to tell your child there is no God, or does your your opinion of scientific 'fact' determine what constitutes indoctrination ?
There is only so much time allocated on a school curriculum to each subject. Each department has to present what they believe is the most important areas to be covered in order to give their students a good background knowledge of their subject.
One lecture of facts opposing the ToE would have made the WORLD of difference to my educational upbringing! The notion that the ToE could be incorrect, was unheard of.
And make myself out to be as rude as these Xians?
Exactly what do they do that is so rude ? Knock on your door 4 times a year, disrupting your EvC posts ? I get 18 emails a day telling me how to score with chicks, I can deal with 4 Jehova's knocking on my door a year..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 6:24 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 11:38 AM Zealot has replied

  
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 70 (67072)
11-17-2003 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Brian
11-17-2003 11:38 AM


It doesnt matter if it is 4 times a year, 4 times a day or 4 times every ten years, once is too much.
Once is too much ? Little harsh
Use of lies is always a xian tactic, it is in their nature.
So you were a practising liar for 20 years ? Why should I believe you now ?
The most inmportant years for learning are between about 3-6 years old, what you learn at this age from trusted adults, such as your parents,is difficult to let go off. Children usually believe that what their parents say is true, obviously it depends on the intensity of the forcing of the parent beliefs on to the child, but you can rest assured there are many xians who suffocate their kids with THEIR beliefs, it isnt even the kids belief.
I believed in Santa Clause from 3-6. Same with the Easter Bunny and Buck Rogers . I don't think it affected me too much You dont think I never questioned Christianity ?
I know literally hundred of kids aged from 11-16 who believe that every word of xianity is true, so what's your point?
You live next to a church
The thing is LOL your parents dont see Santa Clause as the saviour of the universe, they do see that other fairytale character Jesus as a saviour though
Hehe, you must have been a right fool to believe in a fairytale for such a long time. Now however you are wise...
The exploitation of third wrold populations by Xian missionaries. The exploitation of the hungry in the USA and UK at Xian soup kitchens.
Thats right, setup clinics and soup kitchens so we can exploit them huh ?
Yes it is their choice, however forcing them to sit through a sermon before you feed them is exploitation. Building a school solely with the purpose of learning someone to speak English so they can read the Bible is exploitation.
How many 3-6 year olds go to church ? I do know many 14-18 year old's were forced through evolutionary Biology lessons.
Evolution is arguably the most authenticated and documented fact in the history of mankind.
You could be a biology teacher too.
I dont think there is a highschool student in Scotland who thinks that evolution is 'just' a theory. Maybe you need to go back to school.
I believe you called it 'indoctrination'. It's called a Theory, but its really a fact!
Since I dont have any kids I cannot tell them anything. LOL when was the last time you met an evangelical atheist!
Ok, ASSUME you have kids. Telling them there is no God , between the ages of 3-6. Is that not indoctrination ?
This isn't what evolution is about, maybe you should have listened to your science teachers.
How could they explain it ? Perhaps tell me aliens put DNA on earth ?
Why would it make a difference? What about a lecture on the facts against gravity or a lecture on the scientific absurdities in the Bible. Alecture on the facts against a 6000 year old universe, a lecture against all varieties of beetles evolving from one pair in 4500 years, the fact that they would be evolving quicker than they reproduced, would lectures highlighting the absurdity of the Bible not have made a difference to your education?
Hehe, you had faith that God could create the Entire universe, the vast complexities of DNA, that every hair on your head was counted for, but ofcourse God was unable to do anything that denied the scientific model of nature ?
You remind me of some of the Israelites...
It is rude to disturb me and renmind me that this fantasy is still being circulated around the world. It reminds me how pathetic a belief system xianity is, it reminds me of 20 wasted years, it reminds me of the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jews, it reminds me of how embarrassingly naive humans can be......
If it's so disgustingly annoyed by it, why do you spend half your time on a forum discussing Creation and Christianity ?
Z

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 11:38 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 1:04 PM Zealot has replied

  
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 70 (67161)
11-17-2003 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Brian
11-17-2003 1:04 PM


Because I am no longer a Xian, logic isnot your strong point is it?
Ouch
I thnk it has affected you a lot, there's one fantasy figure you still believe in.
You have no right to talk about Evolution man that way.
Yup, at least now I am mature enough to realise that I was a fool, some people never learn this LOL.
He who claims to be a fool...
Thats right, setup clinics and soup kitchens so we can exploit them huh ?
Yes, this is an established fact.
This could be why I dont buy any of your 'other' facts. Think about it.
You are assuming that I would tell them that there is no God, why would I do that, that would make me as evil as the xians who do that.
But why not , indoctrination of facts surely ?
Again, your ignorance of evolution is apparent, evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life, go look up what evolution claims to explain.
LOL, yeah it conveniently chooses to avoid areas where it holds no ground !
Why do you come here to discuss evolution when, despite your scientific background, you know absolutely nothing about it?
I hope you dont consider 3 years of high school biology a scientific background

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 1:04 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-17-2003 5:11 PM Zealot has not replied
 Message 25 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 5:23 PM Zealot has replied

  
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 70 (67310)
11-18-2003 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Brian
11-17-2003 5:23 PM


What on earth is 'evolution man'!
Dunno.. he's a very mythical figure I believed in
I don't have to think about it, you are a typical Xian, you only see what you want to see. If you are unaware of missionaries exploiting situations then you need to get your head out of the sand.
I dont even know what an Xian is! I know what a Christian is. I am a typical Christian ?
PS: Only the pure of heart can see God. That might have been what was missing from your days as a Christian. But then you admitted to being a fool and liar. How you are still surprised you didn't find God I understand not.
LOL but it is not the study of the origins of life, this is like complaining because potato farmers do not tell you how to grow oranges.
Hehe, you sound like a farmer that plants potatoes, big and small, round and odd shaped, then exclaims 'See , there is no GOD!' You still fail to explain where the seed came from, but heck that is not important!
PS: Evolutionary theory would not have to disagree with my beliefs, I just dont happen to believe in it. Could never understand why there were 2 different theories for avian evolution, afterall surely it must be obvious ?
Maybe you can tell us a defintion of evolution from your intensive research?
I think you can find one on google. Beware, you might find more than one! Search for 'definition evolution'
Since we are drifting off topic here, I will open a new thread entitled, 'a creationists definition of evolution', you can inform everyone there of what your definition of evolution is. You should be able to tie me in knots as I have had no scoentific traning at all, not even a subscription to New Scientist!
Hehe, knock yourself out! I've learn't a long while ago there is no budging on evolutionary theory on these forums! Sorry to dissapoint you !
Z

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Brian, posted 11-17-2003 5:23 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Brian, posted 11-18-2003 10:52 AM Zealot has replied

  
Zealot
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 70 (67349)
11-18-2003 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Brian
11-18-2003 10:52 AM


Oh you haven't disappointed me in the least, in fact you have made my day.
I aim to please
A good days evangelising on your part, you have just confirmed an outcome that probably every atheist reading this thread would have predicted, nice one!
Click on my name and try see the last time I discussed any matters of evolution on these forums... should I change that just for you ?
Take care of yourself.
Brian.
I always do.
stay well
Z [/qs]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Brian, posted 11-18-2003 10:52 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by apostolos, posted 11-18-2003 12:24 PM Zealot has not replied

  
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