Spirits and other incorporial things

It is not. Above matter? As in superior to? This statement is nonsensical. In order for 'something to have thoughts, it must first think. Thinking is a function of a brain. So it is not possible to have something that has "thoughts" if it is immaterial. Not faulty, just silly. Evolution has nothing to do with primitive superstitions. *edit mis quote.*This message has been edited by 1.61803, 11-18-2004 02:36 PM

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Hi Purple Youko, Because by definition "thoughts" are the product of thinking. Thinking is a function of the brain. The brain consist of organic material. If there is something in the universe that can think without a brain then that would fly in the face of all known science and knowlege. There is nothing known that would lead science to believe that intelligence exist in a non-material form. If there was then some evidence would be available. But alas all I have ever heard as a form of evidence is heresay, fraud, nonbias eyewitnesses. You would think that by the year 2004 someone would be able to produce a good clean verifiable nonbias photo, or audio, or some measurable form of evidence. NONE exist. If there is such evidence then I would be more than happy to investigate it. As would many other skeptics.Primitive man use to throw rocks at the moon. Cats were exterminated in the Dark Ages in Europe because of superstition. This in turn led to an increase in rats/fleas, which caused the Black Plauge. Thousands killed and burned at the stake for being accused of witchcraft. Hysteria and ignorance perpetuated and still perpetuates stupidity in the name of superstition. We now know the moon is not some mysterous god. We know cats are not familiars and evil. No one burns witches anymore.Spiritual existance is important for man to believe in because man bases much of his religious beliefs in such. To deny the existance of ghost and spirits is to deny the possibility of life after death. And man so much wants to believe that his existance and his soul will trancend his human mortality.
Because to think otherwise is uncomfortable. To think that one simply ceases to exist post death is far to bleak. Much better to believe in the metaphysical. Humans are the only creatures on Earth that sit around worrying about such things as why he exist, and what will happen when he dies. I tend to agree with Neitzche humans are nuerotic apes.

Yes you could say computers think. But they still consist of matter. They still are subject to the laws of physics. Ok, a field of focused energy. what is focusing it? And what is generating the energy? And what are these nodes? What do they consist of? And these nodes that are part of a neural network do they exist as non-matter? Maybe we can build a machine out of nothing that exist as nothing but functions as a brain and can be intelligent.(Silly) How can one build 'something' that does not exist in the form of matter. Thats like saying I can draw a triangle with 4 sides. Umm Purple Youko, what have you been smoking? What exactly do you know about dark matter? Dark matter has not been found to exist. It is postulated. And when and if man finds out that dark matter does exist what does that have to do with spirits and non corporal entities? Just because something exist outside of the bounds of science does not mean we can assume that it can explain our superstitions. That is called God of the Gaps mentality. Wrong. Just because a theory is based on incomplete infomation does not make it in error. A theory is based on evidence, as more evidence comes to light the theory is likewise re-evaluated taking the new evidence into consideration. Science does not jump to conclusions. Jumping to conclusions is psuedoscience. The fact that humans do not know all the answers does not mean we can not make hypothesis based on what we do know. Like the theory of evolution; just because science does not know 'all' the answers does not explain away the momentous amount of evidence and data that supports the theory currently. *edit misquote.This message has been edited by 1.61803, 11-19-2004 02:04 PM

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Accuracy can be subjective. I can have 3 darts within the bullseye and one just outside the bull, were my darts accurate? The fact that they did not all hit the bull make them inaccurate? The first thing they teach you in physics class is something called significant figures. A calculation is only as good as its least significant figure. Just because we can not calculate Pi out to it's last decimal place does not mean the calculations we do make are "in error". I believe you know the point I am making and are arguing symantics. You said that because man does not know all of the facts that the "conclusions" we now have are "erroneous". All I was saying is that scientific methodology does not make conclusions. And theories are not deemed erroneous because of incomplete information.
The fact that we do not know all the answers does not mean we should invent phenomenon to explain reality, in my opinion.
Your are correct it was once thought impossible to fly and now we do so on a regular basis. But how much advancement in knowlege would humans have if we decided to explain everything that goes bump in the night as something supernatural and beyond our understanding? I am not one to say xyz will never happen, I am saying if xyz happens there will be an explanation that will correlate with the known body of knowlege and that it will be testable, verifyable and reproducable. If not then it will be dubbed bullshit.

Good point. But even the most graceous man such as the Dali Lamma or Ghandi will burn in hell according to Babtist Christian theology. But Hitler spared so long as he ask for forgivness and accepts Jesus. So much for that statement. It is not by deeds that one will be "saved" but by the acceptance of Christ.
Hence only Christians will be spared eternal suffering. Since that is a arrogant stance that smacks of "us against them" attitudes, I can see why many do not believe it. Not to mention the fact that humans have no control over where they will be born and what country, or culture or religion. Your whole salvations is hinged on the randomness of where you are from. Thats just silly.

Off topic. Buuuutttt.....Yes I have read the Bible, But do I misunderstand it or salvation? hmmm...well concidering that the church changed it's stance on grace and salvation and who can recieve it. Yes I do misunderstand. I will give you that. I also misunderstand the concept of the trinity, I also misunderstand the concept of transustantiation, I do not understand the concept of sins, venial, grave or otherwise. I do not understand the concept of hell, purgutory or otherwise. I do not understand the bibles redactions and contradictions. I do not understand the churches redactions and contradictions. I do not understand the infallability of the Pope. I do not understand the babtist concept of rapture. I do not understand the paradox of evil in the presence of a omnipotent benevolent God. I do not understand the concept of a angel of intellect making a dumb decision to rebel against God. I do not understand why people insist that it all should not be understood, simply accepted and not questioned. So your right dpardo I do not understand. Which is why I do not subscribe to your particular religion. It makes no sense to me any longer. But if it makes sense to you and you understand it I say fantastic!!

Tisk tisk...and I thought you were from the "show me state." First off Proof is a function of mathmatics.
But I will play....***something goes bump in the other room***
1. was it something physical like a cat.
2. was it a spirit or a ghost
Ok...how can I assume it is something physical and not something supernatural? Well the supernatural flys is the face of all known bodies of science. A cat does not. Look up
Parsamonious Razor . I can dub something as bullshit if it flys in the face of the physical laws of nature. If on the other hand it is backed up by evidence and can be verified I am forced to accept the premise. Unfortunatley all claims of the supernatural have been as of 19Nov04 not adequateley supported by verifiable evidence and hence dubbed bullshit. But if you have some evidence to support claims of spirits and ghost feel free to provide a link or a paper or documentation that has been examined by a impartial independant board of scientist. And verified. In other words "show me".

Maybe an astroid will obliterate the Earth and render man, and spirits moot.

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Nor do I. The evidence does not exist.

Thats funny Lam, I thought he was gestering what grade you were to receive for your paper. LOL!!! *edit typo.
Ok 3 edits for 2 lines...sheesh!!!
This message has been edited by 1.61803, 12-09-2004 03:20 PMThis message has been edited by 1.61803, 12-09-2004 03:21 PMThis message has been edited by 1.61803, 12-09-2004 03:22 PM