|
Author
|
Topic: Organized Religion & personal Spirituality
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
Message 1 of 130 (196915)
04-05-2005 11:04 AM
|
|
|
Here is where we can air our church politics. This thread is a free for all, but I will open it by posting a link and asking for comments. Error 404 - Not Found I realize that our favorite cartoonist, Jack Chick, is behind this article but I know that there is a bit of truth behind it. Also found this:
Dr.Bob Gottfried writes: One of the major problems with religion is that it can make us feel inadequate and unworthy. After all, if we are still facing problems in our lives, perhaps it is because we are not good enough people in the eyes of God. Or if adversity hits us, maybe it is because we are not trying hard enough to follow religious practices. The truth is that we do not need religion to develop spiritually. Religion is not the goal; it is just a tool. Many people find it difficult to accept, but in fact religion is a human invention. Spirituality on the other hand is a universal, godly existence that is the core of life and not at its edge. One of my biggest contentions with organized religion is that it has not evolved and adapted at the pace of the rest of society. The way some religions treat women is a classic example. Women cannot be ordained as priests by the Catholic Church; they cannot become rabbis or even sit beside men in orthodox Jewish synagogues. Islam is no different. This changed in some denominations like Anglican churches and Reformist Jewish Synagogues. Many women have pointed out to me that the percentage of women volunteering for the different Catholic Church activities is very high. Why is assuming significant lay responsibility acceptable but becoming a priest is not? Some good points by Dr. Bobwhat does everyone think? This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-11-2005 10:18 AM
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3 by Phat, posted 04-06-2005 6:50 AM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 5 by IANAT, posted 04-06-2005 12:49 PM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 3 of 130 (197200)
04-06-2005 6:50 AM
|
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
04-05-2005 11:04 AM
|
|
Networks working religion into television - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - By Lynn Elber April 5, 2005 | Los Angeles -- The Gospel according to Mel, as the TV industry views it, is that religion sells. With Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" ranked among the 10 highest-grossing movies ever and with glowing visions of "The Da Vinci Code" profits before them, TV networks are embracing a newfound faith. A miniseries about the Book of Revelation airs next week, while shows about a Catholic priest probing the supernatural and an Episcopalian minister who converses with God are on the drawing board.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Phat, posted 04-05-2005 11:04 AM | | Phat has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4 by jar, posted 04-06-2005 10:46 AM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 12 of 130 (197363)
04-07-2005 12:38 AM
|
Reply to: Message 10 by mick
04-06-2005 3:20 PM
|
|
Both the Islamic guy and the liberals are wrong
Why? IANAT is wrong because there is no way that you will ever be Holy enough for God...despite praying ten or twenty times a day and living the right ways. You do have a point in that America claims to be a Christian nation and yet we ARE a nation of idolators. The porn again liberals are wrong because your P.C. relativistic live and let live philosophy will allow the world to become worse and worse...until Jesus returns again to straighten it all out. Whether the world is in bondage by seduction or oppression, having an idealistic Islamic world will never work because the Western materialists will never let it work. War will continue until the second coming. My theology is part of the controversy with organized religion. Even if I am right it is wrong to legislate morality.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by mick, posted 04-06-2005 3:20 PM | | mick has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: Both the Islamic guy and the liberals are wrong
troy writes: So... which is it? Do you think we should legislate morality or do you think we should "live and let live"? I think that we should live and let live. The world is going to turn out as it is mean't to turn out and the fundamentalists will only send the spaceship earth on a worse course if they try and correct the flight pattern. I don't want to become part of a self fullfilling prophecy that is caused by fundies who think that the world is going to end anyway. It will happen as it is mean't to happen. Lets give everyone their right to be their own judge and let the play resume. When the curtain falls and the director comes from the clouds, we can face him with a clear conscience instead of worrying that we muddled up the plan.
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: Both the Islamic guy and the liberals are wrong
I am not saying that we shouldnt leave each other alone. I am saying that as humans, we cannot leave each other alone. It is part of the problem. That is why there will always be wars and controversies.
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 20 of 130 (197397)
04-07-2005 6:35 AM
|
Reply to: Message 17 by berberry
04-07-2005 2:30 AM
|
|
We are all wrong, but you did not hear it from me!
Hey, Berberry! Welcome to da club. As pertaining to Troy and I, I originally made an opinionated proclamation that: The porn again liberals are wrong because your P.C. relativistic live and let live philosophy will allow the world to become worse and worse...until Jesus returns again to straighten it all out.
As long as I am preaching my opinions from this soapbox, perhaps I should clarify the phrase "When Jesus returns He will straighten everything out." What I mean to say, especially for Troys benefit, is that when Jesus returns He is going to come looking for Troy and give him a big hug, so that Troy will feel better about Jesus. Correct me if I am wrong, Troy, but you are suggesting that my Christian morality is still a form of "preaching or judging" and is...as such...not allowing you to live and let live. In that context, I am responding by saying that there is a bit of the Jewish Mother in me...I just can't leave you alone totally. What do you think of all of this, berberry? In closing, I might add that if I were the Pope, I would proclaim that everybody had crappy morality in some area of their lives but that I, as the Pope, would no longer attempt to tell everyone how to live. I would still voice my opinion, but from this day forth, everyone is on their own with God. If you have read the book, see the movie. If you have seen the movie, become a critic. If you have become a critic, join the club!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by berberry, posted 04-07-2005 2:30 AM | | berberry has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 22 by berberry, posted 04-07-2005 12:49 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 33 of 130 (197696)
04-08-2005 2:46 PM
|
Reply to: Message 5 by IANAT
04-06-2005 12:49 PM
|
|
Re: upside down
IANAT writes: In our view, when your personal whims govern your religious devotion, you become lost. Submission and obedience to Allah is the challenge of this life, which is just a stepping stone. Of course it is difficult. It is part of the plan and personal challenge. I agree with you that submission and obedience to God is the goal. I do not think that humans will ever become good enough for God, however. You are rightly puzzled by Americas profession of Christian theology contrasted with our wild unbridled profession of freedom. I think that it is all mean't to happen anyway. The author of your article has it upside down. Westerners' devotion to their whims and invented notions of freedom lead them to disobedience, which renders their personal religion almost like a hobby, subservient to frequently changing whims. True, but we will never have a Utopian society if we all walk around like a bunch of Monks. The hypocrisy will still be there underneath all the shawls and prayer robes.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by IANAT, posted 04-06-2005 12:49 PM | | IANAT has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 34 of 130 (197697)
04-08-2005 2:52 PM
|
Reply to: Message 31 by berberry
04-08-2005 11:39 AM
|
|
Hell hath no fury like a girlfriend on a mission
berberry writes: I'd like to draw the attention of anyone interested to Michael Musto's column about JP2 in The Village Voice. I read it. The author has a point. (Why do these village voice guys draw so much attention to their "fagness"? Or am I stereotyping?) We live in times of social change, thank God. Ultimately, if we as a species choose the path that is wrong, we will have freely chosen it and should expect God to respond. I doubt if He will be harsh as long as we are honest and passionate about our choices. And if He is, well..there is not much that we can do about it anyway. Best choice of action? Get to know Him now and commune with Him.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by berberry, posted 04-08-2005 11:39 AM | | berberry has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 39 of 130 (197752)
04-08-2005 6:45 PM
|
Reply to: Message 38 by berberry
04-08-2005 6:38 PM
|
|
Re: upside down
berberry writes: If a "crime" has no victim, then why regard it as a crime? OK..take as an example speeding 100 mph at midnite with few cars on the highway. Crime or no crime? Stealing from a dead person who had no heirs. Crime or no crime? Casual sex, followed by more anonymous partners....followed by unknown numbers of kids...Hey..no Dad no crime, right?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by berberry, posted 04-08-2005 6:38 PM | | berberry has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by berberry, posted 04-08-2005 7:12 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 62 of 130 (198063)
04-10-2005 12:56 PM
|
Reply to: Message 53 by crashfrog
04-10-2005 12:09 AM
|
|
crashfrog writes: Who do you believe is "promoting homosexuality"? Since the scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is determined at birth, and certainly not by choice, what would be the point in "promoting" it? I think he means "encouraging" the behavior. It is one thing if little Johnny is born gay, with nothing more than an innate tendency to relate emotionally to guys. It is another thing to encourage him to act exclusively sexual towards men. IF anything, everyone should be encouraged to relate equally to all genders. I think it is just as wrong to "encourage" heterosexual roleplay to the exclusion of alternatives. If little Johnny wants to be a girl for a day at dressup, let him do it. Better then than at 45!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by crashfrog, posted 04-10-2005 12:09 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 64 by crashfrog, posted 04-10-2005 1:06 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: upside down
What you don't seem to be getting is that we are not Islamic. Therefore, the Islamic way of life holds absolutely no sway over our decisions, or authority over our lives. Why on Earth would it?
So tell us, young Skywalker...what does hold sway over your decisions? What authority DO you recognize?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-11-2005 11:23 AM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Re: upside down
Dans clever alias writes: As far as moral authority goes? My own. Why do you ask? I was just checking who was gonna be responsible for the bill when you check out of here, thats all.
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Designated Driver
Dan writes: If you're driving towards a point, then wake me when we get there. And to think that you are letting someone else drive?! That WAS my whole point. Now go back to sleep.  This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-11-2005 01:05 PM
Truth is stranger than fiction because we have made fiction to suit ourselves. -- G.K. Chesterson It ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so. -- Will Rogers
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-11-2005 3:53 PM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 80 by jar, posted 04-11-2005 4:17 PM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 81 of 130 (198378)
04-11-2005 6:12 PM
|
Reply to: Message 80 by jar
04-11-2005 4:17 PM
|
|
Before I wake.....
Well, Gramps was asleep in the boat just like Jesus!  This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-12-2005 12:25 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by jar, posted 04-11-2005 4:17 PM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 82 by Philip, posted 04-11-2005 7:36 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
Back To The Opening Topic...
The truth is that we do not need religion to develop spiritually. Religion is not the goal; it is just a tool. Many people find it difficult to accept, but in fact religion is a human invention. Spirituality on the other hand is a universal, godly existence that is the core of life and not at its edge. True or Not? This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-12-2005 03:25 AM
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."-- Anne Dillard "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive." Elbert Hubbard
|
™ Version 4.2