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Author Topic:   Claims of God Being Omnipotent in the Bible
GreyOwl
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 368 (173407)
01-03-2005 11:25 AM


Are there any passages in the bible that explicitly make the claim that God is omnipotent, omniscient, etc. ? I'm curious whether this claim is actually made, just inferred from other passages, or is perhaps just a traditional belief that developed separately from the bible.

Thanks,
John


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AdminDawg
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 368 (173435)
01-03-2005 12:52 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Tal
Member (Idle past 3152 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 3 of 368 (173973)
01-05-2005 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by GreyOwl
01-03-2005 11:25 AM


Enter the "Can God make a rock so big He can't move it." argument?

There is no passage that I'm aware of that specifically says omnipotant/omniscient. It is inferred from other passages.

26Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

There are things that God can't do, theologically.

For instance, He can't lie. Whether or nto that affects his power base is subject to debate.


Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
www.1st-vets.us
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GreyOwl
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 368 (174091)
01-05-2005 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Tal
01-05-2005 3:47 AM


Enter the "Can God make a rock so big He can't move it." argument?

Is there a specific thread about that? I searched for it but only found mentions of it in parts of other discussions, not one by that title.

And is the claim that God can not lie or just that he does not lie?


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Brian
Member (Idle past 2434 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 5 of 368 (174099)
01-05-2005 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Tal
01-05-2005 3:47 AM


Yahweh speaks with forked tongue
Hi T

For instance, He can't lie.

There are many examples of God lying, one is in Genesis 2:17.

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die

Another one is in Deuteronomy 13:1-3

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

There are more example of God telling lies, but one example should be enough to demonstrate that God can tell lies.

Brian.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 207 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 6 of 368 (174259)
01-05-2005 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Tal
01-05-2005 3:47 AM


There are things that God can't do, theologically.

For instance, He can't lie. Whether or nto that affects his power base is subject to debate.

i believe god can do anything, including what we would term evil.

as brain pointed out, god does tell lies in the bible, or instruct his messangers to lie. but we've had this debate here somewhat recently.


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Tal
Member (Idle past 3152 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 7 of 368 (174309)
01-06-2005 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
01-05-2005 12:11 PM


Re: Yahweh speaks with forked tongue
There are many examples of God lying, one is in Genesis 2:17.

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die

They surely died.

Another one is in Deuteronomy 13:1-3

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Need some clarification on this one.


Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
www.1st-vets.us
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 368 (174425)
01-06-2005 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tal
01-06-2005 4:43 AM


They surely died.

Not when they ate it. And they were going to die anyway, eventually.


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jar
Member
Posts: 29148
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 9 of 368 (174435)
01-06-2005 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by crashfrog
01-06-2005 12:31 PM


Not when they ate it. And they were going to die anyway, eventually.

Actually, in the story, the reason they got thrown out of the Garden was not because they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (whew) but out of a fear that they might eat from the tree of life.

I never really understood why GOD didn't just take the tree of life away or stick the gardian angel that he put at the gates of eden on duty at the said tree.

The whole story is yet another example that indicates why the Bible should not be taken literally.

From Genesis 3

22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

So the whole expulsion from the Garden of Eden was not over the fruit that was eaten but that which remained to be eaten in the future.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Guido Arbia
Member (Idle past 287 days)
Posts: 545
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 10 of 368 (174477)
01-06-2005 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
01-06-2005 12:49 PM


God was refering to spiritual death. If you read the bible from the begining to end witch all fits together perfectly without contradiction though some people may think otherwise, this will be made quite clear.

Stop misinterpeting the bible, it makes drives me nuts when you display your biblical illiteracy like that and think your a proving a point.

This message has been edited by Guidosoft, 01-06-2005 15:44 AM


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jar
Member
Posts: 29148
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 11 of 368 (174478)
01-06-2005 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Guido Arbia
01-06-2005 3:42 PM


Well Guidosoft, over the years I've read the Bible, beginning to end, word by word about twenty or more times. That does not include the Lessons on Sundays or references when looking up a particular passage or quote.

Even if you were to assume that GOD was speaking of a spiritual as opposed to literal death, your assertion does not hold up. There is no indication that Adam or Eve ever died a spiritual death. In fact, much of the rest of the Bible goes on to show that spiritual death is neither a certainty or even likely.

If you read the bible from the begining to end witch all fits together perfectly without contradiction though some people may think otherwise, this will be made quite clear.

As I said, I have read the Bible from beginning to end and it is filled with contradiction, from Genesis straight through to Revelations.

The Map is not the Territory.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Brian
Member (Idle past 2434 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 12 of 368 (174481)
01-06-2005 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tal
01-06-2005 4:43 AM


Re: Yahweh speaks with forked tongue
Hi Tal,

They surely died.

Everyone surely dies.

But, they did not die the day that they ate the fruit, Adam lived for 930 years, so he hardly died the day he ate the fruit.

Need some clarification on this one.

Okay, the two criteria for the Israelites to recognise a true prophet of God were that the prophecy had to come to pass and that the prophet should be speaking in Yahwehs name.

Deut. 13:1-5
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them, you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

If the prophecy came to pass and the prophet was speaking in the name of another god, say Chemosh for example, then the Israelites were not to follow that prophet.

If the prophet claimed to speak in Yahwehs name but the prophecy did not come to pass, then the Israelites were to reject that prophet.

Now, to ensure that the Israelites were following the two criteria for recognising true prophets, God was going to send a prophet now and then to deliberately test Israel.

Therefore, one of two things must have happened. The prophets proclamation came true and the prophet said it was from a god other than Yahweh, or he said it was from Yahweh and it didnt come to pass. Either one requires that God lies to the Israel, if He didnt then there would be no test.

Remember, a prophet is so called because he/she speaks Gods words, God puts words in their mouth. Whether the prophet is in on the ruse is not known, which really wouldnt make much difference anyway.

But having an omnipotent God requires that He is able to lie, if he cannot lie then he is not omnipotent.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
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Guido Arbia
Member (Idle past 287 days)
Posts: 545
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 13 of 368 (174487)
01-06-2005 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Brian
01-06-2005 3:59 PM


Re: Yahweh speaks with forked tongue
Look, this is the theme of the bible.

1. God creates the world.
2. God makes people and gives them paradise.
3. They disobey god.
4. They spiritualy die (they now have a sinful spirit)
5. The human race is now sinfull.
6. As a picture of jesus sacrifice in the future as a substitue for the punisment of their sin they had to kill an animal and shed it's blood on an alter.
7. They would be forgiven.
8. The world grew horrible.
9. God destroyed and renewed it.
10. People wait for the messiah and claim he isn't coming.
11. Jesus came and paid the price for sin.
12. People ask jesus to forgive them of their sins and are saved, others goto hell.
13. People continously say that it's the end.
14. People stop and assume he is never coming and other things appear to be true.
15. All of a sudden, Jesus comes back and everyone is in big trouble.

Now, were are those contradictions. I know alot of them that people say and they HAVE been explained. For example, the one about jesus on the cross when he said something to a theif had a contridiction but had a simple answer that was in the bible.


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Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 368 (174705)
01-07-2005 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by GreyOwl
01-03-2005 11:25 AM


Hi John:

In answer to your question I would first like to give the definition for omnipotent.

WordReference.com writes:

omnipotent
adjective
1 almighty, all-powerful, omnipotent
having unlimited power

almighty
adjective
1 almighty all-powerful, omnipotent
having unlimited power

Merriam Webster Dictionary writes:

Omnipotent
1 often capitalized : ALMIGHTY 1
2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence

Almighty
1 often capitalized : having absolute power over all
2 : relatively unlimited in power
3 : great in magnitude or seriousness

Taking into account the definitions, there are several instances where reference is made that God is omnipotent.

El Shaddai(el shad-di')
All-Sufficient One, Lord God Almighty

  • Genesis 17:1 the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty
  • Gen 35:11 nd God said to him, I am God Almighty
  • Rev 19:6 For our Lord God Almighty reigns.

    El Olam
    (el o-lawm')
    The Everlasting God, The God of Eternity, The God of the Universe, The God of Ancient Days

    El is another name that is translated as "God" and can be used in conjunction with other words to designate various aspects of God's character. Olam derives from the root word 'lm (which means "eternity"). Olam literally means "forever," "eternity," or "everlasting". When the two words are combined El Olam it can be translated as "The Eternal God."

  • Gen21:33 called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.
  • Jer10:10 the living God, and an everlasting king

    Yahweh

    Yahwehin the Septuagint: kurios Lord, Master
    despots Lord, Master, denoting the omnipotence of God (TDNT), despot, absolute ruler

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.html

    Shaz

    This message has been edited by Shaz, 08 January 2005 03:27 AM


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  • Guido Arbia
    Member (Idle past 287 days)
    Posts: 545
    From: n/a
    Joined: 01-19-2004


    Message 15 of 368 (174915)
    01-07-2005 10:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 14 by Shaz
    01-07-2005 12:04 PM


    Your suppost to make people mad when you post so they can reply against you. lol.
    This message is a reply to:
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