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Author Topic:   Dating the Exodus
Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 317 (133688)
08-13-2004 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Brian
08-13-2004 5:58 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
A number of sources confirm this all over the net.
Here's an example:
http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Hazor_Ebeling.htm

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Brian, posted 08-13-2004 5:58 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 08-13-2004 6:31 PM Hydarnes has replied
 Message 43 by Brian, posted 08-13-2004 7:49 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 317 (133691)
08-13-2004 6:14 PM


BTW, Brian, I'll be replying to your Jericho topic as soon as I can. Don't expect it right away though.

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 33 of 317 (133692)
08-13-2004 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Brian
08-13-2004 5:42 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
If Barak ended the occupation of Hazor, then the biblical account of Joshua's action there is inaccurate.
Only if you subscribe to Yadin's handling of scripture:
Brian writes:
There is a problem with Hazor of course, there are three different accounts in the Bible, but they are said to be the same event. They are in Joshua 11:11-15 and Judges 4:1-23 and a poetic account in Judges 5:1-31. Yadin's way to explain the apparent problem was to suggest that Deborah and Barak's story is a later editorial glossadded to authentic historical text (Yadin, Y. Hazor:The Rediscovery of a Great Citadel of the Bible Random House, New York 1975, pp.143-45)
http://EvC Forum: Jericho and Ai: Fictional history in the Book of Joshua -->EvC Forum: Jericho and Ai: Fictional history in the Book of Joshua
We are going round and round.
You are the expert in archaeology, yet the reliance on a Bible text and its cancelation as "editorial" to validate your dating ?
If true then no problem - just want to confirm.
I will probably bow out concerning this point upon reading your response.
Thanks,
WT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Brian, posted 08-13-2004 5:42 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:26 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 54 by Brian, posted 08-14-2004 3:40 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 317 (133698)
08-13-2004 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Cold Foreign Object
08-13-2004 6:14 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote:
You are the expert in archaeology
Do we know this for sure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-13-2004 6:14 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-13-2004 6:30 PM Hydarnes has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 35 of 317 (133700)
08-13-2004 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Hydarnes
08-13-2004 6:26 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Yes.
I do.
BTW,
Hi Hydarnes.
Glad to see a smart creo around here.
This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 08-13-2004 05:31 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:26 PM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:31 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 317 (133701)
08-13-2004 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Cold Foreign Object
08-13-2004 6:30 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Are you speaking generally or in certified terms?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-13-2004 6:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-13-2004 6:34 PM Hydarnes has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 317 (133702)
08-13-2004 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Hydarnes
08-13-2004 6:05 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Actually, that source seems to imply a possible Israeli conquest in the mid-1200rds.
Yadin attributed this destruction layer to the Israelite campaigns led by Joshua and dated it to 1230 BCE.
from Hydarnes link

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:05 PM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:35 PM jar has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 38 of 317 (133703)
08-13-2004 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Hydarnes
08-13-2004 6:31 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Experience with Brian.
We have different worldviews but so what.
Brian is proven.
We both admit our bias and say our bias is based on the evidence. This renders any challenge of bias irrelevant.
Once again, glad to see you Hydarnes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:31 PM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:37 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 317 (133704)
08-13-2004 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
08-13-2004 6:31 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
That link was to corroborate my claim about the destruction and rebuilding of the city, not to support my position on the dating.
At any rate, I think there remains uncertainly as to exactly when the city was destroyed by fire--the terminology is telling. But the fact that the archaeological evidence for the destruction tallies with the biblical record is rather compelling.
This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 08-13-2004 05:36 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 08-13-2004 6:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 08-13-2004 7:19 PM Hydarnes has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 317 (133705)
08-13-2004 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Cold Foreign Object
08-13-2004 6:34 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote:
Experience with Brian.
We have different worldviews but so what.
Brian is proven.
We both admit our bias and say our bias is based on the evidence. This renders any challenge of bias irrelevant.
Once again, glad to see you Hydarnes.
Gotcha.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-13-2004 6:34 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-13-2004 6:40 PM Hydarnes has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 41 of 317 (133707)
08-13-2004 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Hydarnes
08-13-2004 6:37 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Hydarnes:
Why is there very little archaeological evidence of ancient Israel in Egypt ?
I have a gem of an answer but I wish to withhold it for now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:37 PM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 8:19 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 317 (133718)
08-13-2004 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hydarnes
08-13-2004 6:35 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
I'm not sure how the mid 1200rds date tallies with the Bible, but I personally think there is a better chance of supporting an Exodus date around 1200 than one in the 1500s.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:35 PM Hydarnes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 8:01 PM jar has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 43 of 317 (133724)
08-13-2004 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Hydarnes
08-13-2004 6:05 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Hi,
The rebuilding in the links you provided happened long after the 1220 destruction level. Hazor was continually occupied from around 1750 - 1220 BCE, and it is because there is only one total destruction level where occupation came to an end that Yadin attributed this destruction to Joshua. The later building that is referred to in your links are in the solomonic period.
Canaanite occupation of Hazor ended in 1220, the Book of Joshua claims Joshua ended Canaanite occupation of Hazor, there is only one level where this has happened. Therefore, either Joshua caused the 1220 destruction, or Joshua 11 is exaggerated, or Joshua had nothing to do with the 1220 destruction.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 6:05 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by PaulK, posted 08-13-2004 8:04 PM Brian has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 317 (133729)
08-13-2004 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
08-13-2004 7:19 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
quote:
I'm not sure how the mid 1200rds date tallies with the Bible,
It doesn't. And I would like to know exactly what methodology is being used to date the burning of the city with that period.
quote:
but I personally think there is a better chance of supporting an Exodus date around 1200 than one in the 1500s.
Not only would it not afford enough time for all of the Jewish events leading up to the time of David to occur, but it doesn't match the biblical dating methods.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 08-13-2004 7:19 PM jar has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 45 of 317 (133730)
08-13-2004 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Brian
08-13-2004 7:49 PM


Re: Destruction of Hazor
Looking at the limited sources I have available it seesm that there has been a bit of a to-and-fro on the dating of that destruction layer. Lane Fox reports that the Mycenean pottery had been redated to ~1200 BC or later. Finkelstein states that the pottery indicates a date prior to the early thirteenth Century.
But if the Exodus occurred in the mid fifteenth Century BC as some people here have argued then Joshua's destruction would have to be in the early 14th century (maybe late 15th).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Brian, posted 08-13-2004 7:49 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 8:22 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 49 by John Williams, posted 08-13-2004 10:28 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 55 by Brian, posted 08-14-2004 4:10 AM PaulK has not replied

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