Poor Satan, so misunderstood.

To really know God man must receive the life of God into his being. That was the significance of the other tree "the tree of life".God did not want a good man. He wanted a God-man. He wanted a man like His Son Jesus Christ - God and man mingled and united. That was the significance of the tree of life. It is good to learn what Scripture says. But it is also good to know what Scripture ALSO says.See the example in Matthew 4:5-7 We are pretty much told that he had a place of special authority among the other angelic beings anyway.His attack against Adam was a preemptive strike designed to save himself from execution. He knew that the new creature in God's creation could not possibly be good news for him and his rebellious hordes. After all, he [the Day Star] use to have a dominion. And now God said of this new creature man - "Let them have dominion ..."Satan knew this spelled doom for himself and preemptively attacked man to attach man to his Satanic rebellion.But the encompatent little snake is going to burn forever just the same. God cannot be stopped. We are pretty clearly told that he was something of the highest created being in God's govenment. After his rebellion God created man to have dominion instead of the rebel the Day Star, who became Satan. He's not hurt by our hate. He is hurt by our taking in God as our life and life supply as man was originally created to do.Our emotional hatred against Satan is not effective. Even less our unhealthy and morbid curiosity about him. What is effective against Satan is our being born of God, filled with Christ, and allowing Christ to live out from within us.That terrifies Satan. Aaaaah, Clever Clever !! As long as you love yourself you love Satan.If you deny yourself and let Christ live in you, that terrifies Satan.

Let me know when Christ vanishes.Will it hit me like a ton of bricks? Will it shock me like a stroke of lightening?Please let me know when this vanishing of Jesus comes crashing down on me in stark "realism".I've known Him for over thirty years now and He hasn't vanished yet. You're the expert I guess. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

First of all I will admit that there are some things about Genesis 3 which I do not understand. Some questions are too difficult for me to answer. Understood?Having admitted that we can talk about it perhaps.Yes Satan appeared in the form of a serpent in the garden. And he is out of place. Adam was to guard the garden. This suggests to me that Adam should have known that the serpent was out of place.Especially when the serpent challenged them to disobey God it is obvious that the serpent is out of place. I think there should be universal agreement that Satan in the garden of evil was out of place and where he should not have been.Now, dealing with this situation of an out of place evil lying tempter in paradise was a part of Adam's mandate. It was to Adam that dominion was given over every creeping thing. That would include anyone subtly creeping into the garden to cause trouble. The serpent should have been under Adam's dominion. In this Adam failed.Notice the mandate given to the created man: Man is given dominion:1. Over the fish of the sea

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2. Over the birds of heaven

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3. Over the cattle

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4. Over all the earth Number 4 "Over all the earth" should form the conclusion of the things that man is to have dominion over. You have a sense of finality when you arrive at "Over all the earth". That sums it all up. "All the earth" should include the earth and everything related to it.To our surprise God adds a 5th matter after "all the earth" 5. and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth This #5 is something added on, a necessary extra. I take this as a necessary addition. And it hints that the subtle serpent is in this 5th catagory. He is something somewhat out of place.At any rate Adam was to guard the garden from this additional "out of place" creep. He was a leftover from a previous regeme. He was deprived king. He was a king who had lost his dominion. He was a prince deprived of his former princedom. And he was lurking nearby waiting for an opportunity to destroy God's new arrangement of things.It is no wonder that Satan sought to go through the weaker vessel. I did not say the weak vessel. I said the weaker vessel.Often when a slick salesman comes to your home he will attempt to get a foot in the door (so to speak) through the wife first.Most people seem to miss that the really important tree of fruit in the garden was not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. but the tree of life. In the midst, in the middle of the garden was the tree of life. What was central was the tree of life.Now we know that once man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he was forbidden to eat of the tree of life (Gen.3:22-24). Adam's neutral position was no more. He moved from an innocent and neutral state to a state of eating the forbiddin tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And the flaming sword and cherubim of glory then guarded the way forbidding man to eat of the tree of the life.Previously man was to gaurd the garden. Now man himself became a very part of the things against which the garden was to be guarded. Man had joined the opposition party.Now I figure that the converse should have occured if man had taken in the tree of life. If man had taken in the tree of life then the way to the other tree of the knowledge of good and evil would have been guarded. My opinion is that it would have been destroyed and the serpent with it. But I could be wrong about the tree part. Satan would have been destroyed by God in coordination with the new creature man.I am certain that had Adam taken in the tree of life that would have been sure destrouction for the creeping liar who was out of place in paradise. But it may be hard to see this without the rest of the Bible to emphasize it.Man, in coordination with God, destroys God's enemies.Adam's failure was in allowing the creeping slanderer, the lying serpent, to get the upper hand by taking in the forbidden fruit of ther tree of the knowledge of good and evil.However, God cannot be defeated in the accomplishing of His purpose. And the rest of the Bible is the story of His salvation to bring the highjacked man back to Hid divine and eternal plan.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No, in challenging Eve he challenged humanity. The two were one. He came through the weaker vessel slyly.The New Testament says that Adam the man, was not deceived -"And Adam was not deceived; but the woman, having been quite deceived, ..." (1 Tim. 2:14a)And the New Testament seems to place the greater responsibility on Adam the man -"For just as through the disobedience of ome man the many were constituted sinners ..." (Rom. 5:19a)It was clearly an attack not against the woman alone but against the couple as a single representative unit of humanity. I made a terrible typo. I think I called it the "garden of evil."Satan is the slanderer against God and man. You may philosophically muse whether or not Satan "should" have been or not. I think the answer is partly yes and partly no. It is paradox.Looking at the two ends of the Bible is very interesting. In Genesis you have the garden and man within told to guard it. At the end the the Bible the garden has become a city. There is the tree of life there. And there is a wall around the city with the tree of life in it.I will not go into a lot of interpretation of Revelation 21 and 22 at this time. But I briefly want to point out that the scene you have in the beginning of the divine revelation you have nearly the same thing reflected at the end.Satan is in the lake of fire being punished for eternity. And the tree of life is in the city with a wall around it to guard it. The wall is of the precious stones which symbolized transformed human beings. That is sinners who through God's salvation in Christ have been transformed into the image of Christ and built up together as a protective wall around God's interests on the earth.Satan belongs in the eternal trash can of the universe - the lake of fire. After he goes there forever, then maybe I'll sorry for him a little. But not before. IF you are not a Young Earther, which I am not, then you understand that the earth had been around for a long time. In a previous dispensation Satan had been a ruling authority over the earth. He rebelled and was judged to have lost that world. Then after some unspecified time God created a new creature man. Then He said "Let THEM have dominion" (my emphasis).Man was to replace the anointed Day Star Cherub as God's deputy authority in His creation. The deprived and jealous Satan was still hanging around. And he struck preemptively to save himself from this new creature.I think man was to be the executioner. God was the judge. Man, newly created, was to be the executioner.It could also be that God told this high creature "Lucifer" ( Latin ) that He had a plan to create this creature man. He may have outlined His plan to Lucifer in some detail before Lucifer rebelled and sought to derange God's eternal purposes.Either way, this little snake is dead set against God and man. We are glad that in Christ we have victory over him:"You are of God, little children; ... greater is He who is within you than he who is in the world " (See 1 John 3:4)Once again under the feet of the church in oneness Satan is crushed:"Now the God of peace will crush Satab under your feet shortly. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you." (Romans 16:20)So God's purpose had not changed. He will crush Satan under the feet of His people. This is when His people thoroughly are identified with the Christ who indwells them. Christ in His redeemed and transformed people, will crush Satan under their feet. Man bears much responsibility in the Fall of Man. He does not bear the responsiblity for the rebellion and fall of Lucifer. And he doesn't bear responsibility fall the rebellion of the pre-Adamic world. He does, however, bear responsibility for the fall of that world which was placed under his (man's) dominion.Adam should have gone right away to eat of the Tree of Life. This tree represented God dispensing God into man to make man an "organic" union with God.Adam moved from his innocent and neutral position to one of guilt and joined the opposition party. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the fault. I examine what God has done to rectify the situation and learn to cooperate with that.I may not be able to explain why there has not been one unending peaceful paradise from eternity past. But I can point to the fact that history is moving in that direction.So while we may muse on why everything was not perfect from eternity, we can see that God's will is directing the creation in that direction in the future. In the mean time there are a few beings with free will, who have to be dealt with because of the results of their bad choices. Jehovah has defeated Satan by becomming a man and dying for our sins and resurrecting for our salvation. All this victory is available to us in the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit comes into us and we learn to live by Him, the little snake is defeated in area after area of our lives.Christ used the devil's own weopon to defeat him, that is death:"Since therefore the children have shared in blood and flesh, He [Christ] also Himself in like manner partook of the same, that through death He might destroy him who has the might of death, that is, the devil" (Heb 2:14)Christ's death was a mighty defeat for Satan. Christ through death destroyed the devil. This destruction of the devil comes to us subjectively in the Holy Spirit. And as the Holy Spirit spreads within us this defeat of Satan is subjectively realized within man.Christ came and did destroy the works of the devil especially within them who believe and trust themselves to Jesus:"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8) .I'll be back latter.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Was Adam a Jew ? I thought he was the first created man not just the first created Jew. What happened to God's promise that through Abraham's seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed?Did God say only the Jews would be blessed through Abraham?This book is to the Jews yet also to all mankind.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Okay. It amounts to the same thing. The serpent was somehow utilized by the spiritual advasary of God, the devil. The exact mechanics of this I don't claim to fully understand. Nor do I think it is necesssary to.The old serpent was the devil - " ... The ancient serpent; he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth" (Rev. 12:9) On one level that may be true. I am not sure. But the Bible is a deeply profound and spiritual revelation. And the fuller significance is that God incarnate, as the seed of the woman born of a virgin, would crush the Devil in His death and resurrection.The Devil would bruise the heel of the Son of God in having Him crucified. But the Son of God would crush the Devil in His dying on the cross. In God creating the universe He created things to help us understand the nature of our existence and our relationship with the Creator. The natural would is full of hints, pointers, reminders and lessons revealing something about man's relationship with God.He has not only given His divine word for our enlightenment. He has provided the creation to tell us of things divine. The Bible calls the Devil the ancient serpent in Revelation 12:9. This indicates that the old serpent in the garden was Satan.Concerning Eve being "challenged" you wrote: For what purpose? Of course that she would take of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Crossing that line did two things:1.) She stepped out from under the authority of God and under the authority of Satan - a transgression.2.) She got the fruit into her body. This poisoned mankind. The nature of this poison I do not claim to fully understand. But I am certain that it somehow brought human beings into a oneness with the evil nature of Satan. Man was Satanified. He was polluted. A foreign element entered into man's body and into his being and joined man to the enemy of God.Latter the Apostle Paul writes : "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)Paul writes again: "For I know that in me, that is in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not." (Rom. 7:18)It is therefore a matter of something dwelling in the members of man's fallen body. This poison traces back to the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."I find then the law with me who wills to do the good, that is, the evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man,

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BUT I SEE A DIFFERENT LAW IN MY MEMBERS (my emphasis) warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom. 7:22-24)This different law dwelling in the members of man's fallen body traces back to Eve's eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eating of the tree somehow joined man to something living and dwelling in man's members which wars against his good intentions.We are also told that the devil is the spirit operating in the fallen sinners:" ... [Satan] the ruler of the authority of the air, ... the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all conducted outselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath" (Eph. 2:2-3)Something got into man's body and transmuted it into what the Bible calls "the flesh". Something like a parasite has attached itself to man causing him to not be able to do the good that he knows or resist the evil that he knows.We have the knowledge of good and evil. We do not have the life or the power to fully carry out the good or resist the evil. We are very proud of the knowledge. But we are utterly guilty as transgressors before God. He may "know" good but because man is now under the authority of Satan he cannot live the good that he knows. He may know evil. But because he is now a slave of Satan the evil one man cannot resist the evil that he knows.He is very proud of the knowledge of good and evil. But he does not have the life to express God. Man expresses Satan and is a transgressor worthy to follow Satan into the destiny reserved by God for Satan, the eternal damnation:"Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41)The eternal punishment was prepared for the devil and his angels. Now Adam and Eve have caused the human race to be joined to the devil and his angels as co-rebels. Without the salvation of Christ they will follow their leader Satan into the eternal damnation.The terrible irony is that God wanted man to be like God. But not i that way of rebellion. He created man in the image of God. Why? So man would be like God. He gave man dominion over the creation. Why? So man would be like God. He put man before the tree of life. Why? Most certainly that man would take into himself the uncreated and eternal life of The Divine Being to - be like God.Man was created to be joined to God. Satan ran ahead of God, deceived and challenged man and as a result man was instead joined to Satan.Christ is the man that God intended. Christ is the man in union and mingling with God. Christ is the man of divine life. And this is why He is called "the second man" and "the last Adam". The most effective lie is always mixed with a little truth.They knew good and evil. But they could not live the good nor resist the evil. This is the history of the human race. We are very proud of our knowledge of right and wrong. The life power to live as we know we should live is not with us. In Romans, Sin dwelling in man is spoken of as a evil personage. It deceives, seizes opportunity, makes captive, kills, rebells on general principle deliberately, operates, works out death, becomes exceedingly sinful, dwells in man's members, compels and forces man to do what he hates, forces man to not be able to do what man delights in as morally right.All this traces back to Adam and Eve eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil at the persuasion of the old serpent Satan the Devil.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Satan may be alive. But he is not "well". He has a migrain headache which is killing him. Everytime a Christian turns over a little more of his soul to the sanctification of Christ that headache grows more intense.Evil does exist in everyman, including myself. But we who turn ourselves over to the saturation process of the Holy Spirit more than conquer. We are victorious in the corporate Body of Christ over the devil.We intend to put him into the lake of fire with the help of the angels and by the power of God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus is many things. And we should not limit Jesus to just certain aspects of what He is. I totally agree that Jesus is a builder. But He is also a destroyer. In order to build He must destroy.Here it says He came to "destroy" the works of the devil. So how can you say that He is not a destroyer? He cannot build us into His corporate Body unless He destroys in our lives the works of the devil. So with what sentimental naivety do you deny that Christ is a destroyer?Here Jesus is one breaking down a wall. That is to destroy a wall of separation between the Jews and the Gentiles: In order for Christ to build up the one new man He must destroy the middle wall of partition. So why do you want to rob Him of this function by saying He is not a destroyer?Do you know that the growth of our bones requires both destruction and building? How much more in spiritual growth there is the need for catabolism and anabolism.Paul tells us that the old man has been crucified with Christ. Is that not a destruction at the hands of Jesus? Some destruction of the old independent, self centered, Adamic soul life must be put to death in order that we may be freed from the slavery to sin. So I rejoice totally that my old man has been destroyed by Christ in His death on the cross.What are you waiting for, some sort of self improvement? You cannot be self improved. You need to be crucified with Christ and raised with Him.Do you think the act of baptism does not point to destruction in any way? You cannot rise to walk in newness of life unless you are buried with Christ. And for that He must destroy through His death on your behalf. We desperately need the devil destroying death of Christ as well as the life imparting resurrection of Christ. To build He must destroy. [qs] ... He also Himself in like manner partook of the same that He might destroy the him who has the might of death, the devil." (Heb. 2:14)Christ and God even are said to destroy the wisdom of the wise. He must destroy the fallen worldly wisdom which blocks the way of revelation: This is a liberating destruction you know? This is a destroying that sets the captives free, as a hymn says:"My chains fell off.
My heart was free.
I rose, went forth
And followed thee." I don't know what you'er talking about here. This sounds like a debate in search of an opponent.Nothing I said absolved man of responsibility. We have a responsibility to have "the obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5)"The obedience of faith" implies a great deal of responsibility on man's part. We are responsible to repent of our unbelief in Christ and His work and receive Him as our life impowerment and life supply.Who said "no more responsibility?" He Himself is the only way to fullfil God's eternal purpose. There is no other way except God mingled with man. And Christ is the Head of that operation of God united and mingled with man.Christ is the Head of the universal incorporation of the divine with the human. There is no other way. And there is no other way to the Father except through the Christ:If any one comes to the Father it will only have been through Christ. I did not say through Christianity. I said through Christ, the Person, the living Son. The Bible does not teach that the eternal destiny of the saved is heaven. The Bible teaches that the destiny of the saved is to be brought into God Himself. This corporate entity of man mingled with with God is called New Jerusalem.Its gates face the east, west, the north and the south. Her gates are open to all the world. And the multitude of the saved come from every tribe and people and tongue and nation. God is definite. He is large and He is accomodating. But He is definite. And we are called to the obedience of faith in Christ.

Reference to Satan in the Old Testament, in the oldest book of the Old Testament, Job:"Then one day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, Satan also came among them" (Job 1:6; See also Job 2:1; 1 Chronicles 21:1; Zechariah 3:1))Please don't tell me that that is not the devil but God's friendly neighberhood prosecutor. Who started that foolishness on the Internet anyway? No it isn't. The behavior of the slanderer who is of some kind of angelic nature is the same throughout all references to the serpent, or Satan (in Job or Zechariah).I believe Revelation 12 that says that the old serpent was the Devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole inhabited earth. OF course with some types of people he likes to conceal his identity behind excuses that the Old Testament didn't talk about Satan.He's a big liar you know. I am not sure how the existence of the Devil was denial of monotheism. In fact it very much implies the opposite.The Day Star wanted to be like "the Most High." The Most High surely indicates ONE God. And Satan rebelled against Him.You need to stop for a minute and contemplate the personality and power of a being who could dare to revolt against God to overthrow God. Appearing or using a serpent would be nothing to him.I sometimes wonder how the Egyptian magicians were able to imitate God's miracle and turn their staffs into serpents. This they did by their dark magic arts.Anyway, the little snake is going to the lake of fire to be punished forever. And we of the children of God are going to take a part in putting him there. I think I'll limit myself to something like a topic at a time. Right now I am in the process of exposing Satan and discussing what he did and how he is being dealt with.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I still don't see how monotheism is threatened by the existence of the Devil. It sounds like another discussion. Science is prevalent today, true. But peoples have not dropped magic, voodoo, curses, sacrifices, and the dark Satanic, and contact with the demonic. So magic has not been replaced universally by science. Some of the practitioners consider it "science" anyway. It is suppose to contradict the act of forgiveness and mercy. It is suppose to be an act without forgiveness and without mercy.If you're looking for forgiveness and mercy then you need to look in the proper place. Look to Calvary where Christ has died for our sins that we may be forgiven. You don't go to the lake of fire to search for forgiveness and mercy. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Do you mean the Jewish God who said: Do you mean that God who tells "all the ends of the earth" to turn to Him to be saved?I think I will turn to Him and to His book to receive salvation. The fact that you have revolted against the Messiah doesn't mean that I should not turn to the one true God and be saved.Have you not read? Are you going to talk loud about mercy from one side of your mouth and cut off the Gentiles from it on the other side?Have you read the book of Jonah? One entire book from the Hebrew canon is dedicated to God's reluctance to judge a Gentile nation and their response to a Jewish prophet in repentance.So I have repented at the Jewish Messiah Whom you reject. We learn not only what God has said. We also learn what else God has said. And this God has come in Christ the Son. And no wonder for He promised in Isaiah 9:6 that the child born would be called the Mighty God and the Son given would be called the Eternal Father.This book, from Genesis to Revelation, is my book.The Old Testament is also my book. Sorry.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You say that because you don't believe that the divine revelation of God includes the books of the New Testament. The New Testament tells us that the ancient serpent is the Devil and Satan. I believe this.So we agree to part ways on this matter.However, you go on to say that the serpent was nothing more than an animal. But it talked with the woman.Something is up with a talking serpent, don't you think? But even more noticable are the things which it SAYS.It implies that God does not have the couple's best interest at heart. That is advasarial. That is devilish. Or do you think it is quite okay for the talking animal to place doubts about the motives of God's heart into the woman?The talking animal also lies. They would die as God told them they would. The talking animals lies and says that they will not surely die. That is also advasarial to God, challenging His authority and it is devilish. Surely you don't think it is quite alright to accuse God of lying?The talking animal of yours also seems to have the inside story. He does know something extraordinary for a mere snake, don't you think. I mean the part about their eyes being opened was true. Their eyes were indeed opened when they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Explain to us HOW this animal KNEW this. Now be reasonable. Man was given dominion over all the other creatures, right? Then what is up with one of the creatures having the "inside story" on God's ways that even MAN does not have?Where did the animal get this information? It turned out to be true.My answer is that behind this serpent is Satan and he had much previous experience. In the long pre-Adamic ages of the universe he had PREVIOUS experience. The indication of the supernatural is indeed there. It is only in SEED form. It is further developed in OTHER books of the Bible.After all the very name of the book "Genesis" implies things in thier initial stage. All the initial seeds of truth in "Genesis" are further developed in other books of this revelation from God to man. And those INCLUDE His special relationship with Israel, a relationship to them as a chosen people which I do not deny. As I have said above, here we just part ways. The revelation of God to me includes Matthew to Revelation as well as Genesis to Malachi. You reject this. I understand that. But I will continue to stand upon what God tells us about the serpent in other books of the Bible.And incidently, we needn't really go to the New Testament to gather some facts about supernatural rebellion against God. You say that the Devil is non-existent in the Hebrew Bible?Well, in Ezekiel (not the New Testament) we have a prophecy about a being created perfect from the day he was made: What man was "perfect" in his ways from the day he was created? Maybe Adam in some sense. But who since then? What mortal qualifies to be discribed as perfect in his ways from the day he was created? King David wrote:" Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalm 51:5) So what mortal was perfect in his ways from the day he was created? The Gentile Prince of Tyre ? I don't think so. Was a Gentile Prince ever the anointed cherub and compared to the glorious beings which covered the propitiatory cover of the Ark of the Covenant? Would God use such a glorious symbol for a Gentile official of Tyre?I believe that the prophecy is of the "prophetic past" and speaks really not of a mortal but of a supernatural being. The ancient Day Star (Lucifer in Latin) who became Satan the Devil is the best candidate. And this is not a New Testament passage.1.) The Prince or King of Tyre was not in Eden in Genesis as far as we are told.2.) The Eden must be a pre-Adamic Eden (some paradise situation other than and probably before the Genesis Eden.3.) The walking in the midst of the stones of fire reveals closeness to God. This description may be of the precious stones with the glory of God like a burning fire seen by Moses, Aaron, and many others in Exodus 24:10 and 17.4.) The mountain of God from which the anointed cherub was cast should indicate something of the government of God.We also have the Old Testament passage of the Day Star in Isaiah 14. I believe that this is also is a reference to the prophetic past. The dawn refers to the early ages of the creation of the universe. That is before the earth became waste and void in Genesis 1:2.This Daystar does have a throne, so he is some kind of high official. But he seeks to exalt his throne above the throne of God. He seeks to be like the Most High. He is obviosly an ADVASARY against God in God's own realm. The best candidate for this prophecy is a supernatural being.So a full biography of Satan is not given in Genesis. We have to wait for latter books to reveal to us more about his past and his motives.There are many things in Genesis which are disclosed in their elementary aspects. The Sabbath, the priesthood, and the offerings are not exhaustively elaborated on in early Genesis. We wait for subsequent books to fill in more details. So why should the Devil not be treated in a similar manner in Genesis?This enemy of God is progressively made more and more naked as the Bible continues other books. And in the New Testament he is exposed to all the light. Just because we get a partial glimmer of him as the serpent in Genesis gives you no ground to say "Oh, there is no Devil and no Satan in the Hebrew Bible."I'll have to stop this post here.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I consider that disrespectful. Rephrase your question and I'll respond.

You have not seen the significance of all those sacrifices of blood? You have no insight into the propitiatory offerings.You don't see the consecration offering and it significance. You fail to realise the peace offering and its significance. The sin offering and the trepass offering, as to their true meaning, you don't see.You better run with Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. When the Messiah comes will He surpass Jesus Christ? In deeds? In words? In absoluteness for the will of His Father? In sinlessness? in purity? In glory?There is no one either in the rest of the Bible or in human history up to this moment, who can compare with Jesus Christ. No one comes close.Jesus of Nazareth occupies a class of human beings of which there is only ONE member. I think you should reconsider and speak more with some of your kinsmen Jews who have come to believe in Yeshua the Messiah.I do not at this time have time to consider some of the prophecies which reveal His death and resurrection. But I would say that He can be trusted when He Himself expounds that His death and rising on the third day was told in the Scriptures.I know Jews who would fervently disagree with you that Jesus is not the Messiah. Don't think things could not change for the Jews.The Berlin Wall can come down. The Soviet Union can disperse. And Israel can turn to Jesus as the Messiah. Don't think it cannot happen.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I'm sorry. But I don't quite follow what you mean here.I understand that for centries readers of Genesis did not derive quite all the things which the New Testament in Romans or Revelation derive from Genesis. Nor were they responsible for that wisdom before God. For centries the significances which New Testament believers elaborate upon on this side of the death and resurrecion of Christ, were not known to those ancient readers. Nor did God hold them responsible for wisdom not applicable to that dispensation of His salvific work.The living Spirit of God still used what understanding they did have to edify them within a certain realm. They saw something of the ways of God in the account. They saw something of importance of obeying God's commandments in the account. They saw something of the origin of humans in the account. And for these things God held them accountable. He did not hold them accountable for revelation which had not yet been revealed to them.They had insight from the Spirit of God appropriate to that stage of God's progressive revelation and outworking of His salvific operation.Now we come to the times after the incarnation, the death, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The living Spirit of God Who is responsobile for the writing of the accountm shines more light upon the significance of the story. And men of God, utterly consecrated to God, receive this light.Then this deeper wisdom from the Holy Spirit is appropriate to God's people in this further dispensation. It does no harm to earlier interpretations. It only extends and deepens God's people's insight into His heart and His ways.There is yet more light and more truth to break forth from the word of God. He is a living God and He is eternal. The depth of truth in the Bible is unfathomable. It is exhaustless. The Spirit of God can illuminate deeper layers of meaning in the Genesis story.The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is of tremendouns importance. It is not some trivial matter. His conquering Satan is not a trivial matter. No man was so free from self interest and so absolute for the will of God as to allow the devil no ground, no foothold, no advantage to stir him away from God's will: The ruler of the world is the Devil and Satan. He had a foothold in the hearts of many people before this time. Now it is testified that in the Son of God Satan had no hold, no advantage. In Christ the Devil had nothing. The ancient serpent was totally under His feet. And Christ undoes Satan's work through His death and resurrection.With this new victory the Holy Spirit now illuminates deeper truths in the Genesis account which previous generations may have neither seen nor were they responsible TO see.This deeper wisdom does not harm to previous wisdom from God. It does not contradict previous wisdom from God. It is however more appropriate to this latter dispensation of the outworking of His world wide salvation.So, some of us disciples of Jesus, expound the Genesis in a new way. And the Bible tells us now, that serpent was the Devil and Satan who deceives the whole inhabited earth. And Christ the seed of the woman, the virgin born Savior of the world crushed his head on the cross and had His own heel bruised in that crucifixion, in His great love for us.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The dichotomy in Genesis is not between GOOD and EVIL. Good and evil are on the same tree. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It is not the tree of the knowledge of evil.The contrast in Genesis is not with a tree of knowlegdge of good verses a tree of the knowledge of evil. Both the knowledge of good and evil are on the same tree which will bring man into death.The contrast is between the knowledge of good and evil and the divine life of God. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil are opposed to the tree of life.This means that not only man's evil opposes God. Even man's good can ALSO be in rebellion and opposition to God.The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was actually a tree of death. So we may say the real contrast is between life and death. Put another way, the contrast is between independence from God the source of life, leading man into death, and dependence upon God becoming one with God as a son sharing His life and nature.God's way was to impart His life into man. God's way was to take the good man that He created and join him to Himself in a union of the divine with the human; a mingling of the Creator with the creature; a blending of the uncreated with the created; a "organic" oneness of God and man.The tree of life represented a life union in which the divine nature is imparted into man. What does this man of life look like? How can we tell what a man of the tree of life would look like? The answer is that we have to look at the God-man Jesus Christ. He is the universal incorporation of the Divine and the human. God wanted a God-man. From the very beginning of man's existence God wanted a man united, blended, with the divine life which is God Himself.What did happen? The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is "the other way". It does not really matter what it is called. It was the way not prescribed by God. It was the way warned against by God. It was the way NOT of God's choosing. It was the way leading to death.God's way leads to eternal life. The OTHER way, no matter how attractively named, no matter how nobely packaged, no matter how appealing, desireable, or compelling - leads away from God as life. This tree of the knowledge of good and evil brought man into a union with Satan - pure and simple.Now we can talk about the law.Man has now become infested with Satan. Man is in a union with the enemy of God. Man thinks that this is a minor problem that he (man) can fix up. Man does not realize the depths to which he has fallen away from God. But man thinks he can solve the problem with his good.In order for God to impress upon man the degree to which man has been corrupted God gives man His Law. God says "Oh, you think that you are alright. You think that it is a minor mishap and that you can still meet my eternal purpose for you. Here then is My Law. Keep this Law."The law is like the medicine which taken in causes the cancer within to be visible. The Law of God exposes the depths of man's pollution and corruption. Man has been joined to Satan. And the Law of God exposes that man is incurable and only good for condemnation.Please meditate on just this much. Reply if there is something you wish to reply to. Then I will continue.It is the tree of life in the middle of the garden verses the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps, this was a contest between God and the Devil similar to the book of Job. Perhaps the name "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was the name that Satan gave to it.Just as God and Satan had a contest over the man Job, there was a contest over Adam and Eve. There was a triangular situation with God at one point Satan at another point and Adam in the middle, neutral, ready to turn one way or the other according to his free will.God's way was to dispense His life into Adam to make Adam a God-man. The OTHER way was of Satan, to be independent, to withdraw from God. To rebel against God under a exceedingly attractive name which was partially true.Now man had the knowledge of good and evil. But he had not the power to perform the good. Nor did he have the power to resist the evil. Man was Satanified.The salvation unvieled in the Bible is the redemption and deification of man's being through Christ the Son of God, the divine life.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.