constitutionality of using public funds to promote religion

In another thread, randman replies to me:

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Can you prove that Shraf? Military and prison chaplains promote religion and particular religion and they are paid by the US government. Same with the Congressional chaplain/minister that opens Congress with prayer.

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Is opening Congress with prayer in the name of Jesus wrong?

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Yes, it is wrong, just as having "under god" in the pledge to the flag is wrong, and "in God we trust" on our money is wrong.The 1st and 14th amendments are pretty clear about this.It's just that the religious people in this country are a large and powerful majority with a lot of influence they use to bully everybody else into getting and keeping their (unconstitutional) way.The Founding Fathers are currently spinning in their graves over the "under god" bit in the pledge, and even that we have a pledge oa allegance at all.Tell me, if the pledge said "under Allah", or "under the Goddess", or "under Vishnu", or "under Satan", would you mind that your school was having kids recite it every day?

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So if including "God" in the pledge makes people religious, and thus makes them "better" members of society, couldn't one justify this? Simply as a method of making them better members of society?

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First you would have to show that being religious makes one a "better" member of society.Since our prisons and the boardrooms of Worldcom and Enron are full of believers, not athiests, I think there is strong evidence to suggest that being a believer or religious alone is not at all indicative of a greater concern for one's fellow human.

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And if you're caesar, I could make a case for school prayers. And imposed religion, etc. I don't think it'll come to that, but if it does... so what?

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Because that is a dictatorship, and I don't want to lose the freedom to worship or not as I see fit.I don't want to spend time pretending to be a Christian because it is imposed upon me by my government. It would be a lie.

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Do you guys on the Left just think there is some sinister plot to use the government to make you be a Christian or something?

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There is certainly a plan by powerful fundamentalist people in the US government to "Christianize" our laws and culture, yes.Banning gay marriage, putting limits on divorce, the Whitehouse putting pressure on the FDA to restrict the release of over the counter birth control for women, cutting of funds and leagal restrictions for family planning and abortion services for women here and internationally, faith-based initiatives that get government funds and do not restrict evangelizing, candidates for school boards running on false pretenses in order to ram through religiously-based curricula, the restriction on most stem cell research, Bush appointing a man to head up his advisory committee to the FDA on women's health who prescribes the reading of scripture and prayer as a treatment to alleviate menstrual cramps and who is completely opposed to all forms of birth control, etc., etc., etc.I'm sure others could also come up with many more examples, as could I if I did some research, but these are just off the top of my head.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2005 08:01 AM

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but that he felt God should be acknowledged and credited with the formation of the nation.

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So, does that mean that when a football player makes a touchdown, and says a prayer of thanks, that he believes that God created that touchdown?